I ordered a complete set of OEM AR.engine rebuild gaskets and I'm at a loss to identify some of them.Can anyone help ?
#1 these are the O-rings to go around the roll pins in the head-oil passages.TSB from AR says not to use these with single piece head-gasket so I won't
#2 ?
#3 ?
# 4 ?
# 5 This is the idle speed O-ring
# 6 There are 12 of these.They are not for the intake tubes as I have already installed those.
Mystery gaskets
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1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
In addition to the foregoing plea for assistance I would like to ask your opinions re the O-rings for the oil-passage pins which protrude above the cylinder deck.AR have a technical bulletin which states that when using the "New" one-piece head gasket no O-ring should be installed as the seal is an integrated part of the head gasket.When I opened up my engine the O-rings were there inside the head gasket seal.I never had any leakage problems and am just wondering if I should install the additional O-rings or not ? By the way my oil pins are the split pin design-I know that Alfa had at least 3 different designs of pin.
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
Hi Murray,
I don't have much experience with V6 rebuilding (not just yet!!!). I have just taken apart the heads from the block.
So since no one has responded yet, I thought to keep you some company here and try the guessing game!
So... No 2,3,4 (and/or) may be for the hydraulic-tensioner???
I can't think were the 12 big no 6s can go in our L-jet V6... Maybe they are for the SA carburatted version???
Well.. I hope the knowledge people will kick-in soon.
Tell me if I score any points :p
I don't have much experience with V6 rebuilding (not just yet!!!). I have just taken apart the heads from the block.
So since no one has responded yet, I thought to keep you some company here and try the guessing game!
So... No 2,3,4 (and/or) may be for the hydraulic-tensioner???
I can't think were the 12 big no 6s can go in our L-jet V6... Maybe they are for the SA carburatted version???
Well.. I hope the knowledge people will kick-in soon.
Tell me if I score any points :p
Last edited by Hippo58 on Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Petros. Transaxleista!
Petros thank you very much.Your suggestions make perfect sense.I don't run a hydraulic tensioner hence the leftovers and yes the 12 gaskets could well be for another version of the 2.5L.I find this board has gone ominously quite since it restarted and it is important for all of us to communicate if we want to restore it to its previous status.
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
Murray,
I've only rebuilt two 2.5L's and with the full gasket kits I have heap of spare O rings & odd gaskets and other bits. On the head gaskets, don't worry about adding extra O rings for the oil passages. The secret is to make sure you follow the head bolt re-tensioning recommendations, usually after the first 1,000 km or so.
I've done over 80,000km on one rebuild and 30,000km on the other and no leaks at all, not even the timing belt de-tensioner.
David
I've only rebuilt two 2.5L's and with the full gasket kits I have heap of spare O rings & odd gaskets and other bits. On the head gaskets, don't worry about adding extra O rings for the oil passages. The secret is to make sure you follow the head bolt re-tensioning recommendations, usually after the first 1,000 km or so.
I've done over 80,000km on one rebuild and 30,000km on the other and no leaks at all, not even the timing belt de-tensioner.
David
1985 GTV6 3.0 Zender Body Kit - Red
Ready to fly !
Well guys the voyage is almost complete-fingers crossed ! Now all I have to do is wait for the snow to melt off the roads enough so that I can start it up and do a 50km break-in cycle.
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1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
Sure Dave.The downpipes are stock Euro pipes with resonators made by Cisam-OEM.I had an oxygen sensor fitting installed on one of the pipes and am connecting to a stock center exhaust and currently into a straight pipe at the back.I suspect I'll have to put my Ansa rear back on because removing the Cat is probably going to make it quite loud.Fortunately where I live the lack of a Cat is not a problem so I'm glad to be rid of that big ugly heavy section.
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
Dave we'll have to compare the "songs"of our sixes once they're fired up !.
No the snow is not gone yet !Calling for over a foot tonight.Man Georgia must be wonderfull this time of the year.You're probably already using your AC.
No the snow is not gone yet !Calling for over a foot tonight.Man Georgia must be wonderfull this time of the year.You're probably already using your AC.
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
Engine rebuild stuff
Sorry to chime in here so late, but I had a couple of thoughts on the above posts:
1) Oil pump seal ring: Maybe I am on drugs, but I have YET to find any seal ring between the oil pump and the engine block. There was not one on my OEM GTV6 engine when I tore it down for the first time, nor was there one on the OEM Milano engine. Furthermore, I did not put one on any of the motors I rebuilt, and have had no problems (yet). Am I about to suffer oil pressure loss??? What is the answer to the seal ring question?
2) Pistons and HP: I have used Venolia from Alfa Ricambi, and 10:1 .040" over J&E's from Paul Spruell. My most recent 200 RWHP/154 ft/lbs figures are from a fresh motor with the Venolia pistons (CR 10:1). I haven't tried the new cams in the .040" motor yet, should be more HP.
3) AVOID VICTORY HEAD GASKETS LIKE THE PLAGUE. Maybe everyone else has had good experiences with them, but I have NOT. Goetz or Reintz are the way to go. The rest of the Victory gasket package is fine, but spend the $$ and get the OE head gaskets (Goetz or Reintz). The dollar amount is trivial compared to the pain and suffering a blown head gasket will cause.
4) If you do anything to alter previously known-safe engine clearances, take the time to do an engine mockup with an old head gasket (the Victory ones are ok for this!), with clay in the valve pockets and around the piston crown, and make sure there is adequate clearance. I use .050" as a good rule of thumb, and would like to hear other folk's data on that. Taking it as an article of faith that when you mill X amount off the heads you will have sufficient clearance is asking for a buncha bent valves or piston strike. That's one of those AMHIK things.
5) Take the time to PLASTIGAUGE your bearings. I am sure that this statement will bring on the "I have rebuilt 7 jillion Alfa engines for Autodelta and we NEVER did that once" comments, but if the manual lists a range of clearances, don't you want to know where your bottom end fits in? Yes, it is tedious.
6) While I haven't run all the bits of my motor through the dishwasher before assembly (yet), I definitely agree that everything needs to be CLEAN before you put it together. Dirty conditions during assembly are the single biggest factor associated with catastrophic engine failure after rebuild.
These are obviously just my opinions, and I would really like to hear other people's experiences in these matters!
-Al
1) Oil pump seal ring: Maybe I am on drugs, but I have YET to find any seal ring between the oil pump and the engine block. There was not one on my OEM GTV6 engine when I tore it down for the first time, nor was there one on the OEM Milano engine. Furthermore, I did not put one on any of the motors I rebuilt, and have had no problems (yet). Am I about to suffer oil pressure loss??? What is the answer to the seal ring question?
2) Pistons and HP: I have used Venolia from Alfa Ricambi, and 10:1 .040" over J&E's from Paul Spruell. My most recent 200 RWHP/154 ft/lbs figures are from a fresh motor with the Venolia pistons (CR 10:1). I haven't tried the new cams in the .040" motor yet, should be more HP.
3) AVOID VICTORY HEAD GASKETS LIKE THE PLAGUE. Maybe everyone else has had good experiences with them, but I have NOT. Goetz or Reintz are the way to go. The rest of the Victory gasket package is fine, but spend the $$ and get the OE head gaskets (Goetz or Reintz). The dollar amount is trivial compared to the pain and suffering a blown head gasket will cause.
4) If you do anything to alter previously known-safe engine clearances, take the time to do an engine mockup with an old head gasket (the Victory ones are ok for this!), with clay in the valve pockets and around the piston crown, and make sure there is adequate clearance. I use .050" as a good rule of thumb, and would like to hear other folk's data on that. Taking it as an article of faith that when you mill X amount off the heads you will have sufficient clearance is asking for a buncha bent valves or piston strike. That's one of those AMHIK things.
5) Take the time to PLASTIGAUGE your bearings. I am sure that this statement will bring on the "I have rebuilt 7 jillion Alfa engines for Autodelta and we NEVER did that once" comments, but if the manual lists a range of clearances, don't you want to know where your bottom end fits in? Yes, it is tedious.
6) While I haven't run all the bits of my motor through the dishwasher before assembly (yet), I definitely agree that everything needs to be CLEAN before you put it together. Dirty conditions during assembly are the single biggest factor associated with catastrophic engine failure after rebuild.
These are obviously just my opinions, and I would really like to hear other people's experiences in these matters!
-Al
Al Mitchell
Reale Motorsports
#82 E Production
Alfa Romeo GTV6
Reale Motorsports
#82 E Production
Alfa Romeo GTV6
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Greg Gordon
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HP stuff
Hi-
It is a 2.5, with 10:1 compression and only modest head work. I use the Megasquirt EFI system, and an MSD 6AL, with the stock distributor and an MSD timing computer. Getting rid of that @#$% AFM makes a HUGE difference, as does running 3" air ducting-as I am sure you know! In fact, I can say with absolute certainty that opening up the intake tract to the throttle butterfly is VERY critical.
Anyway, all that air makes no difference if you do not have good cams, and Richard Jemison is the man when it comes to V6 cams. My current cams have about 11mm of lift.
Finally, I have spent lots of time and $$ tuning the car on the dyno with wideband O2 monitoring.
I run CSC headers (Andy Kress, Performatek). They are superior in that they maintain the primary pipe length longer. I have no muffler at all, and the exhaust exits the car behind the passenger door. I did run a Supertrapp muffler for a while, but it was unnecessary. I am usually around 93dB at the track.
-Al
It is a 2.5, with 10:1 compression and only modest head work. I use the Megasquirt EFI system, and an MSD 6AL, with the stock distributor and an MSD timing computer. Getting rid of that @#$% AFM makes a HUGE difference, as does running 3" air ducting-as I am sure you know! In fact, I can say with absolute certainty that opening up the intake tract to the throttle butterfly is VERY critical.
Anyway, all that air makes no difference if you do not have good cams, and Richard Jemison is the man when it comes to V6 cams. My current cams have about 11mm of lift.
Finally, I have spent lots of time and $$ tuning the car on the dyno with wideband O2 monitoring.
I run CSC headers (Andy Kress, Performatek). They are superior in that they maintain the primary pipe length longer. I have no muffler at all, and the exhaust exits the car behind the passenger door. I did run a Supertrapp muffler for a while, but it was unnecessary. I am usually around 93dB at the track.
-Al
Al Mitchell
Reale Motorsports
#82 E Production
Alfa Romeo GTV6
Reale Motorsports
#82 E Production
Alfa Romeo GTV6