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Yes, but do you also not see any merit in being VERY comfortable with oversteer? I dunno, I feel that it has helped me tremendously at time trials by being able to to be comfortable taking the car to the limit at high speeds. Losing the tail at 90+ mph still makes me feel pucker though

dorifto at sbcglobal has been my email for the last 7 years =)

It's good to know how to slide, sure. But it's quite different to pull the e-brake and slide in 70Km/h and to have the tail step out in 160-170.

Might actually be a better idea to set the car up loose and drive it like that for a while. Or learn in the wet, which will be both slower in speed and car movement.

At schools in the US, I sometimes tell people to use weight transfer to start the slide...do a flick and abruptly lift the throttle to break the rear loose while turning in. The funny thing is, I learned this because at some point I realized that I can't clutch-kick or pull the e brake on a 75...I'd either break something or it won't work!

OK Kevin, sorry, back to your thread.

A wet skidpan is best intro to the world of throttle control and weight management that i can think of. Better still if you can engineer a change of direction into it (so is not just burning around in a circle). Try to drive as FAST as possible - that will teach you what works and what doesn't - its all the same from then on.

Next stage is a wet racetrack and/or a set of skinny hard road tyres and learn to slide the car through the corners - old skool stirling moss style. A nice smooth gravel road is good too, but hard on the car and probably a bit too slidy (unless you want to go rally, then knock yourself out).

Then progress to type R semi slicks and try to get it to the point where is has those little mini slides that the driver feels but are hard for the onlookers to notice - then you are on the money.

Nowhere do clutch kicks or e-brakes or scandos come into this, except maybe at stage one for the first 5 mins - not that drifting isn't a skill, does just not have a lot to do with circuit racing (ice dancing versus speed skating?).

This is perfect place to discuss this. My problem is I leave my braking to late and then turn in off balance in the wet. Bottom line is I need more practice out there in the wet and if its not raining go to the skidpan as mentioned above.
Another issue is you arrive at the track and its totally dry then the heavens open. So without a full race team backing I take off the antiroll bar on front and reduce tyre pressures , basically what else can you do ?

eh, what? You remove AR-bar in front? Why? Sounds like a sure way to spin in any condition.

And why people lower their air pressure in the wet I cannot understand, I usually raise the pressure...

Other then pressure I move brake balance rearwards during the warm up lap but keep it conservative, fronts need to lock up in front first, always.
I had a second set of tires with me that was cut for better drainage but I have never driven on them. They are now onthe shelf in my garage on a freshly rebuilt set of Revolution RFX. Doesn't fit my new brake setup.
What a great investment that was...

I'm with Mats 100%

A general problem is that when you made the car stiff enough not to roll on dry it will be really too hard on wet and seriusly tricky to drive.
We had rain when we were testing KT's 75 and it was between really slow and impossible.
As we have rain here in ~25% of the races it already makes sense to have a plan.
Easiest is disconnecting BOTH AR bars. With TB's there's not much else to do. With coils some engineering can be made.

When I overshoot a braking zone/lose stability when braking I keep the wheel straight and try to kill speed as fast as possible, then once I feel it is safe, begin to turn in. I feel this is the best way to slow down enough to try and make the corner. Turning in under overly-heavy braking seems to just make things worse.

This is when doing time trialing. What are your guys' thoughts on this? I haven't spent to much time on the track ($$$)

grant wrote:When I overshoot a braking zone/lose stability when braking I keep the wheel straight and try to kill speed as fast as possible, then once I feel it is safe, begin to turn in. I feel this is the best way to slow down enough to try and make the corner. Turning in under overly-heavy braking seems to just make things worse.

This is when doing time trialing. What are your guys' thoughts on this? I haven't spent to much time on the track ($$$)

Correct, its about using the available tyre grip for what's most important at that particular time. If you're in too deep, it will be all about braking, so keep the car straight. Once it has slowed enough, trade off some braking for some turning, to avoid hitting whatever it is that is looming inthe windscreen (which can take some self discpline and is good to get your body/mind to learn for an emergency).

Turning in with some brake is cool of course, and you will be way slow if you don't. Sometimes you have to brake and turn at the same time, then its just a matter of managing the slide as best you can and juggling brakes and steering to keep the car going in roughly the right direction!

Jason , thats how I drive in dry but for me its kinda like been a good hardcourt tennis player but really bad on clay because you rarely get to practice on it.

New clutch I am making up . Starting to macjine a flywheel. Just checking diameters here.

Kev,

Your car now has a monster engine, but I don't see any aero mods. Is it going to be done? Like a small rear wing and a front splitter?

So what do you guys think, at club level racing, do aero mods really make a difference?

Remember the Top gear E46 330d (sponsored by Peniston Oil and Larsens Biscuits ) that Jezza said without the front splitter the car was understeering more.

I've been told that for most fun/club stuff, aero is not a really big concern.

Thing is, I time trial, so every fraction of a second counts, and there ARE some fast sweepers in some of the tracks I go to. For me I was thinking extending the fron euro bumper (75) and putting on a splitter (like that orange 75 TS in the Swedish Alfa club race).

Silhouette classe perhaps? no aero-stuff allowed i think.

Z , no areo mods allowed but I would like to start looking at underside of car.

The 928 is not out the window yet as I want to give the origional box another go with a much lighter clutch unit to reduce innertia (rotating). This should have a direct impact in the longevity of the crown/pinion. I have now the correct oil, temp is good so with the lightweight unit it should work. Tolerances (backlash) is perfect. A friend of mine was the mechanic for julian 75 3.7 that won the british club champs a few years ago and remembered only one pinion failure. The 75 long ratio unit was used with a 1;1 fifth thus it had the biggest pinion of all the transaxles made.

If it doesn't rain much but you want to prepare for racing in the rain - find some skinny old hard road tyres and try to do some fast laps on them (ie not just larking around sliding the car for the hell of it - which is of course lots of fun - but try to carry as much speed as possible in a grip compromised environment). The sensations are probably about 90% consistent with decent racing rubber in the rain. Will help to develop the feel necessary to find the grip limit, stay as close to it and learn some tricks for when you drop over the edge.

Jason , when I was using slicks last year the first lap and a half were full slides every corner trying to get heat into them as if you did not warm them quickly they would grain and never warm up. That was good practise but it went from huge slides into huge grip. Think I will dig them out leave them in the sun and go practise with them now that they are hard. Thanks for pointers.

Back to clutch. When all you race chaps are replacing the double gtv6 standard pull clutch to race type push clutch DO you use the same clutch housing with hole cut for master cylinder or go back to the 2.0l housing. The 2.0l housing has a circlip to hold bearings in while gtv6 has two lock nuts which is much stronger. (ignore welds inhousing)
Ideas anyone ?