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Mats
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Post by Mats »

Do you guys ever get to actually drive? :wink:
Maurizio wrote:In the past I 've estimated/calculated the springrate of the torsion bar at the position of the coilover and it was ~30 N/mm when I remember correctly. On the TS I run 104 N/mm (600 lbf/in) coil-over spring and the origional torsion bars. And a huge 32mm hollow anti roll bar. I like the balance the car has a lot. So like Micke said (104+30=) 140 N/mm or more coil-over spring sounds great.

:D much faster typing requered.....


Spring rate or wheel rate or a mix of both? Very confusing...
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Post by Micke »

Maurizio is using spring rate at the OE shock position for all values.

OK, Andrew, now I understand better what you mean (it also makes more sense!)

I have a friend who tried over 200 kg/cm springs. Undrievable. His setup was much too stiff. I think his car was lighter though.

The good side with coil overs is that trying out and swapping springs doesn't cost like the thich torsion bars. And you get almost any springrate.

The spirngs need to be longer as you said. Misundrzooda for a change :shock: Mine are 8" I recall. 6-12" should be the right ballpark.

BTW, to reduce understanding problems:
kg lb and N are units for weight and mass (not spring rate.)
mm and cm like inch are lengths
Spring stiffness can be described with N/mm, kg/cm, lb/in or similar

Sometimes its really hard to figure out what everybody means (or is it just me :roll: )
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Post by Maurizio »

Do you guys ever get to actually
Yeh yeh rub it in, but I've got a date set somewhere begin May this year. Stock engine is waiting to get mounted 8)
Just need some time off and less workload of my boss :evil:
Spring rate or wheel rate or a mix of both? Very confusing...
Like Micke stated: calculated towards the origional shock position.
Hey, where did you get your A/R hollow bar?? Sounds cool!
Is my own design, stainless steel, weight/stiffness optimised ---> 6 Kg and ~1,1*stiffer as a 30 mm AR bar.

Image
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Post by Micke »

I get to drive anyway. I'll fire it up as soon as I can find it under the snow....
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Post by Mats »

Snow is gone here now! Weeeee! :D

So we are talking "shock-rate"? shock movement in stock fixing points? ok then.
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Post by ar4me »

Need a rethink like Barry said.
Huh? His point was simply to make sure there is sufficient clearance where the shaft goes through the stock mounting hole.

What I was thinking and which is not shown in the pics is a bushing and plate/cup/washer (just like found in stock application) that will not rest against the body, but against a "cylinder" that goes against the joint (the threaded shaft will run inside this cylinder). This way the load will be distributed on the shock hounsing somewhat similarly to the stock mounting (and not entirely on the threaded shaft). As mentioned originally the horizontal bolt will have support welded in.

Hopefully, there will be no changes in travel as the shock housing needs to only be lowered a bit in order to allow free movement wihtout rubbing the body (where it would usually rest).

Jes
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Post by ar4me »

Jonni made the "bushing/spacer" I had in mind and welded in the "tubes" for the horizontal bolt. Will it last beyond turn 1? Guess we are about to find out...
Jes
Attachments
Final mounting.
Final mounting.
mounted.jpg (68.84 KiB) Viewed 8202 times
This is how it will work.
This is how it will work.
shockmount.jpg (42 KiB) Viewed 8201 times
The bushing to distrbute the load on the shock housing.
The bushing to distrbute the load on the shock housing.
bushing.jpg (71.82 KiB) Viewed 8202 times
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Post by Barry »

Maurizio,Did you say the ar bar was made from stainless steel?? :shock:

Jess,Thats going no where I reckon..Just pull that bolt up tight...Idealy I would like to have distributed the load upwards directly off the uniball joint..I was under the impression the wide mounting was so the shock was adustable fore and aft..if neccessary..Not criticising in any way here,just pondering...

\ /
||
/ \

Something like the above for the bracket?? with the bolt running through the middle??

What do you think?? :)
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Post by Maurizio »

Barry wrote:Maurizio,Did you say the ar bar was made from stainless steel?? :shock:
Yep, stainless steel.
Reason, stainless steel tube (cold drawn, not welded!!!!!) is more affordable then cold drawn steel.

Jess, for the uniball I'm with Barry, looks a bit to weak.
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Post by ar4me »

for the uniball I'm with Barry, looks a bit too weak.
But Barry's overall comment was
Thats going no where I reckon..
Which part? The tensile strength of the uniball itself is rated at 70000 lbs from the manufacturer, I believe. I think Barry was suggesting "more" support for the horizontal bolt (in form of bell shaped support). Is that also what you are suggesting? Or, are you saying a stronger uniball itself is needed? Any other mods you would suggest?
Jes
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Post by Maurizio »

Sorry, didn't write it down clear.

The bolt which goes through the uniball needs more support. Tube around the bolt is to thin.
A plate from the tube to the bottom or what Barry suggested an X-form would fix that.
A side view (the O is the tube, where the bolt runs through).

__
|
O
|
__


or Barry's


O
/\
----


hmm hope this helps.....
Banned.. ? ;-) Daily donky.. ==> BMW 325d Image
E36M3 (3.0) Ringtool :twisted: ==> definitely BANNED!

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Post by ar4me »

Thanks for the clarification and suggestion!
Jes
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Post by Zamani »

A slightly more elaborate design


|----
| .. |
|.. O
| / |\
| | | |
|.. /\
|.. | |
|.. / /
|
|----------
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Post by Mats »

hahaha. :lol:
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Post by Barry »

:D Zman,Ive said it once before,you have too much time on your hands...good one..

Maurizio,My experience with stainless is that it eventually fatigues and cracks.Its not a good material for vibration or movement..The continual opposite forces acting on it says its going to crack somewhere,probably right next to the welds..Nicely made though..let me know when it cracks or even if it does..This is an interesting one..How long have you been running it in your car??

Jess,Uniball is way strong..It works in compression as well which is good..The brace is not quite an x-brace,but as in my picasso drawing,the uniball slips in between the bracket,no tubes..unless you want lateral adustment,then loose tubes of varying lengths..Not criticising,merely suggestions... 8)

Alternatively,2x angle irion brackets,back to back with uniball in between??thats going no where...(again)
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