ALFAGTV6.COM

tomp · Post by **tomp** » Fri May 05, 2006 7:06 pm

I know this topic is kind of like motor oil, can get kind of religious never the less I want to know if anyone has found a good track pad for milano/gtv6 that is kind to discs. Im running porterfield R4-S. It provided really good stopping power but the disc now has polished grooves all over it and thus the pedal is kind of mushy.
Some suggestions I have are CarboTech 1106, or maybe portfield R11 (new).
-Tom P.

MD · Post by MD » Fri May 05, 2006 11:34 pm

Can't imagine that the grooves in the rotors have any bearing on the pedal mush. I think you have other problems possibly air and fluid related.

Murray · Post by **Murray** » Sat May 06, 2006 2:43 am

Tom I have always had exellent experience with Porterfield R4 pads.(86 GTV6 with stock calipers) Last year I was feeling lazy and decided to try the R4S pads so that I wouldn't have to switch back to street pads after every event.The R4S was not up to the task.I started to"lose my pedal" after 5 or 6 hard laps and when I removed my pads I could see that they had severly overheated.I've gone back to the R4 and all is well.I use Brembo solid discs and have had no problems with excessive wear.

tomp · Post by **tomp** » Sat May 06, 2006 5:01 am

Murray, R4 pad be driven to the track? I started out with new rotors and R4-S pads. Had rock solid pedal and great brakes. After a hard track weekend with 8 sessions on track they were still good. Last weekend I took it to a faster track. Basically I started noticing some mushyness after the 2cnd hard run. By the 4th run they had definiantely degraded. A reblead and adjust produced only slight improvement. The pads still have 60-70% left but rotors are showing some real distress. I suspect street pads may be designed to last longer than track pads at the expense of rotor life. Ill post a shot of the rotor wear after it stop raining.
-Tom P.

Murray · Post by **Murray** » Sat May 06, 2006 7:33 am

Tom I have no problem driving to the tracks ( some are 200 miles away) with the R4 pads except they are very noisy - you'll scare little old ladies

MD · Post by MD » Sat May 06, 2006 2:58 pm

tomp

Portafield's were the pad of choice for some of the professional Alfa racing teams in Australia in the 80's. So I do not beleive that it is a pad issue. You say you bled the brakes but did not change fluid. Would be good start.

Also examine carefully all your flexible lines. I went through a stage where my car developed bubbles in new flex hoses when I replaced the original ones as they were 20 years old thinking I was doing the safe thing. The new ones turned out to be faulty and dangerous! Now I use custom made alterantives and have no more problems.

Without going to absurd levels of debate, the rotor is incompressible and so are the pads so where is the sponge effect going to come from-the rest of the system ! I am basing my comment on your description of "mushy" meaning softness, sponge, lack of real hard pedal and the like.

If you mean something else, you may care to elaborate.

tomp · Post by **tomp** » Sat May 06, 2006 7:02 pm

Actually I ran most of a new can of Super Blue thu the system. Has new stainless hoses. Mushy is relative. Im comparing it to the initial installation of new discs/pads. Currenty they are still plenty good enough on the street. Just a long way from how they started out. The big difference now is I can detect a faint groan sound as the front pads seat into the rotor grooves. If its not raining too much tomorrow Ill pull a pad and check its surface condition.
-Tom P.

Sporttunergtv6 · Post by **Sporttunergtv6** » Sun May 07, 2006 12:43 am

if you use your brakes... alot... like i do

, then you need a higher temp fluid... and u need atleast 3 liters of it. it sounds like you cooked the fluid, you need to flush the system with your new expensive high temp fluid (go for the highest temp 600) and you are probably going to be on the third liter or so before you get all the ate blue juice out. remember that now that you have cooked it... it is absolutely good for nothing. so as you are flushing and you mix it with your castrol rbf, or motul 600, etc dont expect those fluids to hold up to 600 because they have been weakened by the remaining blue juice.
i used ate blue until i could not stand it anymore. i use rbf now and every once in a while i still cook the fluid. what can i say? i still use the brakes too much (but then again i havent spun or ended up off track in a year)!
victor

tomp · Post by **tomp** » Sun May 07, 2006 4:37 am

3 liters ouch! Guess I better start shopping.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sun May 07, 2006 5:58 am

Why not just rinse it out with some compressed air?

Then add the new fluid, not too complicated. And the fluid doesn't "break" if it boils, it indicates that it has possibly been contaminated with water though and should be replaced.

tomp · Post by **tomp** » Sun May 07, 2006 8:44 am

Here are a couple of shots of rt pads and rotor.

Murray · Post by **Murray** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:15 am

Tom your R4-S's look just like mine did.Toss them and go with the R4's and new good quality (Brembo or ATE) discs and I'm pretty sure you'll be pleased with the results.

Sporttunergtv6 · Post by **Sporttunergtv6** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:33 am

good point mats, if you have an air compressor. try to blow as much fluid out as possible, let it sit a while, blow it out again, then filler up. that should take off 1.5l atleast. last time i changed fluid was in a hotel parking lot at the crack of dawn... can you believe the hotel didnt have an air compressor!?
v

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sun May 07, 2006 1:05 pm

Do you have ABS? 0.5 liter is usually ample for me. Even without compressed air.

Sporttunergtv6 · Post by **Sporttunergtv6** » Sun May 07, 2006 1:47 pm

no kidding... i guess that is why you are a 'guru.' i am still relatively new to motorsport, mechanics, etc. i usually try to make up for the inefficiency of inexperience by overcompensating. since i have to order brake fluid and it takes it sweet time to get to me... i say order more and keep it close by just in case (b/c it is a bi**h trying to find fluid in the seemingly most remote or unfamiliar places). sometimes quick advisory posts between newbs just spread misconceptions and i appreciate the watchful eye, mats.
the fluid definately does not break, and just opening up the lines and bleeding until mc is empty will certainly get most of the fluid out- .5l or something close sounds good to me for a refill, but if you are going to ride that pedal through the brake zone you need all the claimed high temp capabilites you can muster... boiled ate fluid might as well be water in your brake lines.
it is sooo scary, not to mention dangerous, coming into a turn with a brake pedal that hits the floor, but you know how the adrenaline starts pumping... if only adrenaline 700 degree adrenaline brake fluid was in my mc i would have one fewer bent(!) dedion tube on the side of my garage (not to mention one fewer piece of alfa scrap in the driveway.
anywho... back to the thread topic
v

Good track pad kind to disc?