ALFAGTV6.COM

[bmacf]

Hey everyone, back in March I mentioned that Jim Fierst from Whoa brakes was developing a kit for the Alfa Milano and GTV6. I volunteered to do some testing for Jim.

The testing of the prototype Whoa brakes upgraded front caliper kit has been completed. Quantitive and qualitative information was gathered such as stopping distance, rotor temperatures, pedal height, fade and feel. The kit was also used on two track days on my Milano (3.0 with ABS system). Three brake system setups were compared: (1) the stock system; (2) stock system with upgraded pads (Ferodo) with high boiling point fluid; and, (3) Whoa prototype system with both street and track pads and high boiling point fluid . The majority of the testing was done on my Milano but there were a number of tests on a friend’s GTV6. The ABS system on the Milano worked well with both stock and Whoa setups. It consistently out stopped the GTV6 by 15 feet from 60 mph. Neither the stock nor Whoa system performed well with the ABS disconnected on my Milano.

Overall, the stock system when upgraded to high boiling point fluid and the proper pads significantly improved the stopping distance and reduced fade. The Whoa prototype kit out stopped the upgraded system by only 5 to 10 feet from 60mph. The Whoa system never encountered any fade (on the track or during the testing). On the track the Whoa system raised my confidence level and it felt like it was stopping shorter than the improved stock set up. Perhaps the difference in stopping distance is more evident at track speeds (110 down to 35mph) than in testing (60 to 0). Other than counting the number of cones before a corner where I could apply the brakes, I have no quantitative data to show that the Whoa prototype setup has a shorter stopping distance. The first calipers I tested proved to have too much clamping force. Jim decided to reduce the piston size and this resolved the problem. Wilwood’s Smart Pads and E series Polymatrix pads were used in the Whoa kit. Wilwood’s 570 brake fluid was also used.

After evaluating all the results Jim has decided not to produce these kits. The kit based on the prototype I test would cost around $700 and the results would only be slightly better than the stock system with performance pads (such as Ferodo). What is required for improved braking is larger diameter rotors which implies larger wheels.

In the end, I wish I had a way to quantify the confidence that the Whoa setup gives me on the track. But unless you have a track in your backyard it just isn’t feasible to do the testing that would need to be done for high speed braking. I learned quite a bit about what Jim goes through to develop a kit. I definitely plan to buy a Whoa kit for my Fiat Spider. From what my friends say, the difference from the stock setup is like night and day.

Catch you all later,
Bill in Maryland

[Greg Gordon]

If the Whoa system never encountered any fade that's a big improvement. The stock system will start to fade in about 3 hot laps at Hallett raceway. Is $700 really that much? How much are big brake kits for other cars? How much is a new pair of rotors/calipers/pads for a stock GTV6?

My supercharged GTV6 was recently driven hard by an expert at Hallett and when he got out of the car he said "That f$%#$er has a lot of power but it needs real tires and brakes." It has new but cheap kuhmos on it and stock brakes with new pads and high temp fluid. It seems that by modern standards the stock GTV6 brakes are outdated for track use.

[bmacf]

Hey Greg, what kind of brake fluid and pads were you using? The higher quality fluid helps a lot and moving to a more aggressive pad helps a lot (on the track). In the testing (repeated 60-0 runs), I was surprised how mushy the pedal got over time with stock pads *or* with regular brake fluid. Upgrade both and it's a big difference. Then the higher quality caliper, steel braided hose, good fluid and high quality pad - well on the track it really builds your confidence (or at least mine).

How fast were they going and braking in your SuperGTV6? I'm not familiar with Hallett.

Bill

[Greg Gordon]

Hi Bill,
The expert driver (Russ Neely) was caught up in traffic quite a bit but I suspect he hit well over 100 mph on the main straight. I was not in the car so I don´t really know, my wife was in there so I will ask her when I see her (I am stuck in Mexico right now) Hallett has a good website with good videos so you can see how it´s layed out.

I used Valvoline 500F fluid which is the best commonly available stuff meaning I got it at Auto Zone. It´s not as good as Wilwood or some of the others but it´s a lot better than the normal 334F stuff. The car has Axxis pads, I am not sure which type but they are street pads. This combination was fine for my wife who just sort of cruised around in third gear never downshifting and not using the brakes much, but with an agressive skilled driver it was not good enough.

[Micke]

Greg,

don't think ANY street pads are good on the track with any car.

[MD]

I think these are.. HP Plus by Hawke

[Zamani]

MD,

The HP+ is not really race pads. I had those and they were good. But if you want race you have to go with at least the Hawk Black. The Hawk Black pads ate my discs.

[MD]

Zamani

I guess it all depends on the type of racing you do. One of our quickest guys who used to campaign a supercharged 116 GTV used these pads and swears by them. So it may be a case of type of race and track.

I use them on the road and yes they put crap on my rims and squeal when applied gently but they stop real well.

[Mats]

The Hawk Black pads ate my discs.

Some Race pads eat disks when used on the road, i.e. when not at operating temperature.

PFC PF97 for instance, they even shoot sparks. looks like you have an angle grinder in the wheel working on the disk.

[Greg Gordon]

Micke, race pads are better for the track. However this is a street car. We drove the car 6 hours each way to and from the track and I didn´t really feel like swapping out parts when I got there. I suppose I could but then how far would I go? The stock torsion bars probably hurt track times more than anything. If I start swapping out torsion bars, pads, and putting in negative camber at the track I might as well have a dedicated race car.



For a lot of us race only parts are not a viable option.

[Zamani]

Greg,

The pads MD suggested is a good pad actually. Not a full race pad, but... not many of us need a full race pad. Alternatively you can try the porterfield R4-S which should be good on the street and on the track.

[Micke]

Trust me Greg. I know the feeling.
I did drive to the races (and back home) when I was a student with even less money than today.

Even back then I used Ferodo DS11 which was great on the track and needed some pedal force when cold. I admit, swapping rear pads back and forts isn't really a pleasure. And changing only front pads will alter the brake bias a lot, and most likely not to the better. In cases like this I'd go for a semi-race pad as the best compromise.