I have only checked in a couple of times, they still go on and on aout the same stuff, mostly daily-driver stuff that is sooo boring.LENZ wrote:Is that forum still active haven't been there for years.
Well, back on topic, sry guys.
Well, back on topic, sry guys.
Mats Strandberg
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
You'd like the Yahoo Alfa Racing group. All race cars, all the time.Mats wrote:I have only checked in a couple of times, they still go on and on aout the same stuff, mostly daily-driver stuff that is sooo boring.LENZ wrote:Is that forum still active haven't been there for years.
Well, back on topic, sry guys.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/alfaracing/
-Peter
The true joy of an Alfa Romeo is behind the wheel.
Yeah, I just loove Yahoo... I bet there is a ton of knowledge in there but I just stay focused because of the crappy software...
Screening through i million posts that are about stuff I care nothing for just to find that Gem? nah...
This forum on the other hand, all about Transaxle, gotta love it.
I'll shut up now.
Screening through i million posts that are about stuff I care nothing for just to find that Gem? nah...
This forum on the other hand, all about Transaxle, gotta love it.
I'll shut up now.
Mats Strandberg
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
Huh? Hey Andrew,got you-yes ,the 3.8 got Praggia-Fantastic!Chris from Praggia has kindly donated a set of 6 pots to me for my Giulietta-Says its not on having a distributor riding around on Brembos....Will post when I fit to my car..Lotsa pics....Going for 330mm discs with the Praggia`s
Barry
French cars are shit and shit expensive to service and bloody awful and unreliable and expensive and friends don't let friends drive french cars and you wait years for parts.
-
junglejustice
- Verde
- Posts: 624
- Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:19 am
- Location: Granolaville, WA
Autodelta Chucks The Brembos
Article in the Jan. AutoItalia talks about Autodelta tossing the Brembos on the 3.7 GTAM project - They are not happy with the red 4 pots...
They used AP in place....
They used AP in place....
...to Alfa, or not to Alfa? That is the question...
My wilwoods are plenty for my car. Maybe it's light compared to the 147 GTAM. And the wilwoods are small too. I'm sure the APs are way better than my wilwoods though. I guess with my weakling 200 bhp motor, it doesn't need giant calipers and discs. Then again, at the tracks I frequent, I don't really need big brakes. If the Brembos are offered at a good price, I'd snap them. Unless the APs are the same price? Are they 6 pot APs or 4 pots?
You really don't 'need' more than the 305mm discs and the Brembo caliper on a transaxle .....the 330mm discs and huge calipers are just extra weight.
Plus most people are still running 205/225 tyres - you can only generate so much grip before you lock-up. When you race with 10" slicks, think about going larger.
Andrew
Plus most people are still running 205/225 tyres - you can only generate so much grip before you lock-up. When you race with 10" slicks, think about going larger.
Andrew
I tend to agree with Andrew re. brake size.
We all see and hear about 6/8-pot kits giant discs and,and,and... What we must really put into perspectie is what is NEEDED, not what looks good. To briefly use a scientific note, consider a quantity known as 'swept area/ton' which is a good measure of a vehicle's braking capability (to a good part, at least). Now see if you can compare this with similar published data for various racecars (e.g. ITC class). Next, think of something very sobering: Ron's 75Experience TS cars, use stock brakes with Pagid pads and we're talking of speeds exceeding 200kph in the Ring! Now THAT'S a real track, not very demanding on brakes mind you, but nevertheless real speeds! If, then, we upgrade to 305-310mm with 4-pots, we have a significant 30% increase in pad area plus a VERY significant mechanical advantage due to the increased diameter! You can see that with all this, the improvement is phenomenal and it means that in the track you can brake later and harder, which is the whole point!Down go the lap times.
Granted, 16/17" wheels result in better handling/lap times (as tested by an Italian carmag with an A145Ti), but road asperities, bumps,potholes etc, make 35/40/45 series tires a liability and add much high cost. If you want to impress the crowd at McDonalds, go ahead and put 332mm discs with 6/8-pots on 17" wheels and 35/40 profiles. Practical? Hardly. Then, if you are serious about track days, what will you pay for semirace 17" rubber?
On the other hand, using proper (roomy) 15/16" wheels, you can fit 308mm(15") or 323mm(16") with 4-pots at a much lower cost than a 17"package with giant brakes and 6/8-pots of very comparable performance! Are you really that good to exploit the difference?
The whole idea I am trying to get accross, is that more than one aspect of a proposed modification must be considered beforehand. Cost is never insignificant for most of us (and surely one of the reasons this forum exists). Otherwise, beryllium 4-pots, Carbon Industrie and Dymag, here we come!! Cost vs performance is a most serious and difficult choice, as well as a balanced overall car development. I won't bore you any more, end of sermon!
Regards,
Jim K.
We all see and hear about 6/8-pot kits giant discs and,and,and... What we must really put into perspectie is what is NEEDED, not what looks good. To briefly use a scientific note, consider a quantity known as 'swept area/ton' which is a good measure of a vehicle's braking capability (to a good part, at least). Now see if you can compare this with similar published data for various racecars (e.g. ITC class). Next, think of something very sobering: Ron's 75Experience TS cars, use stock brakes with Pagid pads and we're talking of speeds exceeding 200kph in the Ring! Now THAT'S a real track, not very demanding on brakes mind you, but nevertheless real speeds! If, then, we upgrade to 305-310mm with 4-pots, we have a significant 30% increase in pad area plus a VERY significant mechanical advantage due to the increased diameter! You can see that with all this, the improvement is phenomenal and it means that in the track you can brake later and harder, which is the whole point!Down go the lap times.
Granted, 16/17" wheels result in better handling/lap times (as tested by an Italian carmag with an A145Ti), but road asperities, bumps,potholes etc, make 35/40/45 series tires a liability and add much high cost. If you want to impress the crowd at McDonalds, go ahead and put 332mm discs with 6/8-pots on 17" wheels and 35/40 profiles. Practical? Hardly. Then, if you are serious about track days, what will you pay for semirace 17" rubber?
On the other hand, using proper (roomy) 15/16" wheels, you can fit 308mm(15") or 323mm(16") with 4-pots at a much lower cost than a 17"package with giant brakes and 6/8-pots of very comparable performance! Are you really that good to exploit the difference?
The whole idea I am trying to get accross, is that more than one aspect of a proposed modification must be considered beforehand. Cost is never insignificant for most of us (and surely one of the reasons this forum exists). Otherwise, beryllium 4-pots, Carbon Industrie and Dymag, here we come!! Cost vs performance is a most serious and difficult choice, as well as a balanced overall car development. I won't bore you any more, end of sermon!
Regards,
Jim K.
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junglejustice
- Verde
- Posts: 624
- Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:19 am
- Location: Granolaville, WA
By the same token...
The popular misconception persists that extra pistons are designed/purchased/obtained/installed for the sole purpose of increased brake pressure on the pads and the rotors - ergo “8 pistons will lock up if you sneeze...”
Paleeze!
Consider this: 5 valves to a cylinder head versus 4.... Yes, in effect you can gain a larger force with more pistons in your caliper, but herein lays the misconstrued notion that this would be the directive... (That and impressing the lunch crowd at Mickey D's...)
Again, paleeze! Realistic who on this board would make that their directive?
In fact, pick up the phone and talk to Chris at Praggia a bit. Talk to some of the other manufacturers too… I did. What I for one have learned is that there are other (much more practical reasons) for increasing the number of pistons in a caliper, of which larger force is merely a by-product.
-You gain a much greater distribution OF THAT FORCE over a wider area – better control
-Less issues with sticking (especially on a brakes caliper with no dust boots)
-You gain much better cooling (or should I say less heat build-up) and better heat dissemination
-More even pad wear
-Yes - greater force IF you increase the total piston surface area as compared to less pistons of much larger size…
-More even application
-Longer life
-And yes, greater grip.
It's not an issue of "...am I really that good..." It is an issue of, I really am that bad.... I NEED that help. If I want to trail-brake, I would like my brakes to be there at the next turn.
I don't want to bend a backing plate (like I have done on the stock Brembo and Ferrodos...) and separate the pad surface...
Let the stoning begin!
Paleeze!
Consider this: 5 valves to a cylinder head versus 4.... Yes, in effect you can gain a larger force with more pistons in your caliper, but herein lays the misconstrued notion that this would be the directive... (That and impressing the lunch crowd at Mickey D's...)
Again, paleeze! Realistic who on this board would make that their directive?
In fact, pick up the phone and talk to Chris at Praggia a bit. Talk to some of the other manufacturers too… I did. What I for one have learned is that there are other (much more practical reasons) for increasing the number of pistons in a caliper, of which larger force is merely a by-product.
-You gain a much greater distribution OF THAT FORCE over a wider area – better control
-Less issues with sticking (especially on a brakes caliper with no dust boots)
-You gain much better cooling (or should I say less heat build-up) and better heat dissemination
-More even pad wear
-Yes - greater force IF you increase the total piston surface area as compared to less pistons of much larger size…
-More even application
-Longer life
-And yes, greater grip.
It's not an issue of "...am I really that good..." It is an issue of, I really am that bad.... I NEED that help. If I want to trail-brake, I would like my brakes to be there at the next turn.
I don't want to bend a backing plate (like I have done on the stock Brembo and Ferrodos...) and separate the pad surface...
Let the stoning begin!
...to Alfa, or not to Alfa? That is the question...
-
junglejustice
- Verde
- Posts: 624
- Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:19 am
- Location: Granolaville, WA
Is this/was this...
REALLY necessary? Worth it...?
We should rename it the new alfaAndrewGTV6.com that way we can all just huddle around and listen to three or four of you guys "spin" about your collective world of knowledge....
The rest of us would then be left to just cower in darkness because we don't own a Roush car or a former Glenwood car that we scavenged off of Julian B.....
Does ANYBODY see how this shit gets started? You're like the naughty child who pinches the baby when mommy's not watching...
Childish. Just Childish.
We should rename it the new alfaAndrewGTV6.com that way we can all just huddle around and listen to three or four of you guys "spin" about your collective world of knowledge....
The rest of us would then be left to just cower in darkness because we don't own a Roush car or a former Glenwood car that we scavenged off of Julian B.....
Does ANYBODY see how this shit gets started? You're like the naughty child who pinches the baby when mommy's not watching...
Childish. Just Childish.
...to Alfa, or not to Alfa? That is the question...