This Sunday we plan to drag race a GTV6 against a stock 1987 BMW 535i. Who do you think will win?
The GTV6 is my dad's former car, now my son's. It's stock except for my intake, and side out exhaust (stock front exhaust and cat). It has Total Seal Rings, and a full radius cut valve job. However it was overhauled about 180,000 miles ago and is starting to show signs of wear. It's still quick but it's lost a little in the last 20.000 miles or so. Oh, and it's a 1983 car with the dreaded 3.42 rear end, not good for drag racing.
The BMW is my daughter's. It's a 1987 535i which was BMW's hottest offering for most of the 80's excluding the "M" cars. It's only around 300 pounds heavier then the GTV6. It has BMW's big 6 3.4+ liters, but it's held back a little by 8:1 compression. This particular car has an automatic with a very tall first gear, however the long stroke 6 cylinder and torque converter enable it to pull that tall gear pretty darn well. The BMW is in incredible condition, only 110,000 miles and it's as good as new.
I don't want this to turn into a discussion of what if the BMW had a stick, or what if the GTV6 had the more common 4.10 box. That could never end. Which car do you think will win this Sunday?
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
I hate to be negative, but I think the BM will win. I have never been in either car, though.
The things that make me say this is that: 1. Displacement to weight ratio favors the BMW in a big way, and 2. Engine maintainance factor also favors the 535.
The Alfa's advantage of a manual trans is marginal to nonexistant depending on the condition of the synchros and clutch. I know the 535's auto is no race horse but 3.42 on the 6er is taller than a verde box. I cant imagine what that thing does with 2.5liters. (Get excellent economy?
)
I think if the 6 had a 3liter or a different box it would go differently. Oh wait, Greg asked for no speculating on different configurations
sorry 
I hope to be proven inncorrect.
How do the drivers compare?
If your daughter is honest and innocent, she will keep her foot on the brake until the green. If your son is an Alfa driver at heart he will pull up four feet behind the line and begin to roll forward before green. That would make the race very interesting
One more question: What is the rev limit on the Alfa? A high reving alfa with 3.42 might fetch 60 in first with tall tires. A race to 60 might be interesting in that case...
The things that make me say this is that: 1. Displacement to weight ratio favors the BMW in a big way, and 2. Engine maintainance factor also favors the 535.
The Alfa's advantage of a manual trans is marginal to nonexistant depending on the condition of the synchros and clutch. I know the 535's auto is no race horse but 3.42 on the 6er is taller than a verde box. I cant imagine what that thing does with 2.5liters. (Get excellent economy?
) I think if the 6 had a 3liter or a different box it would go differently. Oh wait, Greg asked for no speculating on different configurations
sorry I hope to be proven inncorrect.
How do the drivers compare?
If your daughter is honest and innocent, she will keep her foot on the brake until the green. If your son is an Alfa driver at heart he will pull up four feet behind the line and begin to roll forward before green. That would make the race very interesting
One more question: What is the rev limit on the Alfa? A high reving alfa with 3.42 might fetch 60 in first with tall tires. A race to 60 might be interesting in that case...
Grip
I always thought that one of the good things with the De Dion
is that the wheels is vertical all the time, so you have the full
contact patch of the tyre at a start. Compare to an independent axle like BMW, where te wheel go to negative camber under a start with less even contact patch?!
is that the wheels is vertical all the time, so you have the full
contact patch of the tyre at a start. Compare to an independent axle like BMW, where te wheel go to negative camber under a start with less even contact patch?!
Grip
I always thought that one of the good things with the De Dion
is that the wheels is vertical all the time, so you have the full
contact patch of the tyre at a start. Compare to an independent axle like BMW, where te wheel go to negative camber under a start with less even contact patch?!
is that the wheels is vertical all the time, so you have the full
contact patch of the tyre at a start. Compare to an independent axle like BMW, where te wheel go to negative camber under a start with less even contact patch?!
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
Zambon, the drivers are not a factor, my dad and I will be doing the driving. The GTV6's transmission shifts perfectly. The GTV6's 3.42 box has a 3.5 first gear so it's overall ratio in first is lower then a Verde's 3.55 box with the 2.8 first. This Alfa has no rev limiter, we shift at about 6500 in first.
Barry, Thanks for the road test pictures! The 535i in the U.S. was different then the car in that test. It's an E28 BMW not the older E12. Plus the U.S. spec motor has 8:1 compression leaving it with only 182hp/217lb torque. It also has Motronic injection, not L-Jet like the Euro M535i. Don't get me wrong, the U.S. 535i was mightly in it's day but it's no match for the M535i in that magazine.
Traction off the line. Well, the BMW has limited slip so that gives it the advantage there. No GTV6 had limited slip. Still, if the wheels don't hop the DeDion set up grips pretty hard.
Barry, Thanks for the road test pictures! The 535i in the U.S. was different then the car in that test. It's an E28 BMW not the older E12. Plus the U.S. spec motor has 8:1 compression leaving it with only 182hp/217lb torque. It also has Motronic injection, not L-Jet like the Euro M535i. Don't get me wrong, the U.S. 535i was mightly in it's day but it's no match for the M535i in that magazine.
Traction off the line. Well, the BMW has limited slip so that gives it the advantage there. No GTV6 had limited slip. Still, if the wheels don't hop the DeDion set up grips pretty hard.