ALFAGTV6.COM

[BradGTV]

is this what i need:???
http://www.jegs.com/p/MSD/MSD-Boost-Tim ... 8/10002/-1

[Greg Gordon]

Brad,

I don't know if it will fit the 2.0's distributor, but a vacuum advance module from an 81-83 GTV6 can be set up to retard timing under boost, this is what Callaway did.

For what it's worth, a few years ago I spent a lot of dyno time playing with timing. I found that it was much more effective to control knock on the 2.5 by reducing boost than by retarding timing. In other words, when the engine is on the knock threashold, backing the boost off 1psi reduces power less than retarding the timing 5 deg.

I run everything at full timing, and control knock by lowering the boost. I then add water injection to make it super safe.

Note: This is what I have found works best on the Alfa V6. There is no question that it's the other way around on some engines, for example the 32 valve Ford Cobra V8 likes A LOT of boost and not much advance.

Greg Gordon,
www.hiperformancestore.com

[BradGTV]

thanks for your info. greg.
does anyone know if the vaccum advance module off a gtv6 will fit on my 2ltrs dizzy as greg discribed??

also i have two choices in turbos.
what would suit a 2.0 nord motor best garrett t25 or t28??
keeping in mind i am looking for as much low down grunt as possible.

cheers, brad

[BradGTV]

just reading through jim.k's book and found this :

"there were 3 dohc turbocharged engines: one in the 2-liter gtv turbodelta, producing 150hp with dellortos, on in the 2-liter giulietta producing 175hp with dellortos"......

why such a big power diffrence?

what is diffrent between the two engines??

[Mats]

In other words, when the engine is on the knock threashold, backing the boost off 1psi reduces power less than retarding the timing 5 deg.

It's also less annoying, letting the ignition advance move about is something you feel really well when you´re driving. Having the boost go down a bit isn't as obvious.

About the 150-175 engines, the real question is: Why are they so down on power?
Did Alfa quote the true power figures this time? naaah?

If you are looking for a similar number and want as much low down grunt as possible you should look at even smaller turbos like the GT17 or maybe the Mitsubishi TD04-12B
But in my opinion a setup like that will me boring to drive because it will be strangled at higher revs and difficult to set up (carbs/timing). If you make something that moves from say 3000 and up you will have a much easier time.

[BradGTV]

i am thinkin gof using t25 as it is used on a similre capacity engine as standard.

a guy on the aroc australia forum who owns a turbodelta said his stock igntion was very poor and unreliable, so he bought a 'pressure retard system' from benincas.
he said this has made all the diffrence. 'i think' when the pressure comes up (more boost) the ingniton retards itself? does anyone know what excatley it does?

About the 150-175 engines, the real question is: Why are they so down on power?
Did Alfa quote the true power figures this time? naaah?

so if they didnt, what do you reckon there power output should be?

[Mats]

Well, a good NA-engine produce around those numbers so a turbo should be better...

[SydneyJules]

If you're gonna go to the expense of setting this all up, staying with blow through and all the intricacies (ie- they're not difficult if you know what you're doing!), don't stuff around with the ignition too- just get yourself a haltech ignition only ECU. They cost bugger all, and you will have full control over it, not have to stuff around with dizzy advance when it comes on boost (ie- you can set ignition as a function of RPM)- and you'll keep the carby sound that you're obviously lusting after, and remove the ignition headache you'll possibly deal with by staying with a dizzy.

Turbo- check out some of the GT25 off shelf turbos, or a an internal WG GT28 off a nissan SR20. Will deal with up to 15psi boost, at flow levels to give you about 200rwhp if the IC is good enough to bring the temps down. Will build boost from about 2500 at WOT and run out of puff @ about 6-6500

I totally get that the idea of this sort of setup is to be old skool in flavour and execution, but the car will be much more fun with modern electronics helping the hole shooting match get there. And you'd never know when you lifted the bonnet.

[BradGTV]

thanks sydneyjules for the advice,
iam looking to basically copy the giulietta/alfetta turbodeltas but using modern improvement such as igntion. this should make a faster and more reliable car.

i have a t3 t4 turbo atm, but i think that will be too big?
but i think i will run with a gt25 and let the boost come as low down the rev range as possible.

im sorry but i dont have any knoweldge in the modern ecu stuff, would you be able to reckomend a igntion system suitable for my needs?

thanks brad

[SydneyJules]

Any of the local ECUs will do it. Haltech make them Ign. only, but any of them will run without doing the EFI part.

Check out:
www.wolfems.com.au
www.enginemanagementsystems.com.au
www.microtech.com.au
www.haltech.com.au

BUt haltech are a bit exp- you will find an ignition only one on ebay every now and then-think they;re called an IG-5 (for the old ones)> can set the dizzy up to give TDC ref too.

Now obviously, Ebay is the place to look for a bargain. Seriously. I know a bloke that picked up a brand spanking new Wolf thing (that does seq. inj on 8 cyl) for $400. It's about 1900 or something on the site....

Older ones are OK too.

Turbo wise, Mats seems to like the Mitsu turbos, and they are handily, factory available too, so talk to him about which ones are the go, while the Nissan ones are around everywhere too. If your manifold is for your T3 exhaust (im guessing it's a T3 exhaust housing) then you're gonna need to cut it off regardless.

Give some Jap places a call, and see what they have. Seriously, There's HEAPS of stuff around, and the jap factory stuff is great for budget stuff. If you go build an engine that can rev and take the boost too, different story. Apparently the Toyota CT ones that come off the MR2 are a bit too heavy and run out of puff sooner than the Mitsu and Nissan stuff. The Nissan stuff is all Garrett.

Greg, mats, Kev, mike, do you think I am silly recommending it, or is he better off staying with the dizzy? Will the drive be better and worth the extra $$ in the end?

Brad- I think so, but be curious to see what these guys have to say.

[MD]

The short answer is Microtech and it's here :
http://www.microtech-efi.com/

A budget system that will cover all your basic needs for an ECU.

However I never consider a project in isolation such as engine power without considering what the application is for. Street cars, rally cars and racing cars all need different torque characteristcs which is followed immediately by brakes and handling requirements to match the power.

So my advice is about thinking the project through clearly and deciding on the package as a whole and working out your budget to do everything properly. DO NOT drastically increase horspower in isolation. It's a recepie for disaster.

Finally, if you have a total project in mind, research the likelyhood of getting approval from the machinery inspectorate so you can obtain insurance if it is to be a road car. Failing to do this is the second recepie for disaster.

[BradGTV]

thanks for the suggestion on ecu i will look into it.
the car is really going to be used for the track and hopefully the odd drive on the road,
i will look further into the registry/insurance side of things but there should be no reason why i cant register and insure the car.

about suspension/brakes my gtv has volvo vented disks with 4 pot calipers, bigger torsion bars, sway bars, ect..

thanks for the advice, please keep it comming!
brad

[BradGTV]

been reading some other car manufacturer forums and several times a boost retard module has been mentioned, i have also heard of it on the asutralian benecia turbo motors. sounds like a good invetion! it been described that when boost come on the dizzy automaticly retards the igntion, and it has a boost line from the manifold. does anyone have experience with this? or know what it is?
thanks brad

[BradGTV]

not much has gone on with this project latley but have managed to do few things:
get a t28 turbo,
built up a pair of boost proof carbies,
and finish off the manifold,

regarding programmable ignition, can it be set up with the electronic dizzy or will i have to go crank fired igntion ect..??

[Duk]

regarding programmable ignition, can it be set up with the electronic dizzy or will i have to go crank fired igntion ect..??

So long as the distributor has a nice trigger built into it, then it can work with a programmable system.
Hall effect sensors seam to be the nicest, but reluctor triggers are quite common too.
Optical trigger system are nice too, but probably the hardest to implement on an old dissy.