3 liter, 24 valve engine project

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Michael
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Michael »

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Pictures of the engine compartment. The misfiring issue seems to be solved now. What was happening was the rain water was leaking in through the hood 'tea tray' and from there into the spark plug wells. This was causing the spark to short out and not jump the plug gap. I sealed the tea tray more thoroughly (with silicone) and altered/customized the Magnecor plug wires by gluing a short piece of silicone hose at the top of the rubber boot. This (with dielectric grease) creates a really good seal which I hope will prove impervious to water.
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The black ("heat absorbitant" :lol:) coating on the valve covers and intake plenum has to go - I'm looking for a shop to powder coat these something more appropriate. Colour TBD.
Actually there is some welding that needs to be done to fix a couple of issues where jb weld glue was used to adhere various pipes to the valve covers. To tide me over, I just used copious amounts of silicone sealer since the glue broke really quickly.

Also need to mount the air cleaner in the small compartment ahead of the wheel well - as I have seen many people do. This is cleaner and I am sure lowers temperature of the incoming air.
Michael
1981 GTV6

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Mats
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Mats »

Nice to see some pics. :)

So a lot of qick and dirty jobs on these engines I take it?

How does it drive compared to a 12v?
Mats Strandberg
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by fast-alfa75 »

Michael, you were missed at the trackday! I was looking forward to seeing the car on track. We have another event in Bremerton, love to see you there.

No Alfa for me on track. Car in the garage in pieces, being prepped for next season's ICSCC ST CLASS road racing! Did about five laps in the M6, just enough to say the car is NOT a track car. Whoa. Doorhandles!

Chris
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Melvivio
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Melvivio »

Sublime looking car, sublime looking engine.
Black '80 3.0 24v GTV6. Flawed maybe, But absolutely glorious!

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Michael
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Michael »

Thanks!
I have not updated this in ages, but I have moved in a different direction as regards the EMS. The car ran OK on GoTech but I found it really hard to tune since the software is not very feature rich. It is for instance difficult to correlate a change to the map with an effect on the mixture.
I have always liked Megasquirt (especially the tuning software), so decided to go with that. I ripped out the GoTech and am installing a Megasquirt-II PCB V3.57 running MS2/Extra firmware. The hardware has modifications for VR Ignition Input (crank sensor) and triple ignition outputs for wasted spark. It natively supports my Zeitronix wideband O2 sensor and should (practically) tune itself using TunerStudio AFR targets.
If anyone has a starting map for this configuratrion, let me know :-)
Michael
1981 GTV6

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Zamani
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Zamani »

Good lord Mike, sell me your CSC already !! :mrgreen: You can have my SZ headers + cash.

Btw, is MS2 better than VEMS? I should check it out.
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Michael »

Hi Zamani:
Sorry - I'm turning into a bit of an Alfa pack rat in that I cannot bear to part with this stuff in case I need it again :oops: (more likely, get another car in which I can use it).
I did not look at VEMS specifically - I will post a full Megasquirt write-up so you can see what is involved and decide for yourself. I have a feeling MS is much less expensive... and upgrading becomes more feasible because of that.
The new MS III will enable full sequential fuel injector triggering, coil-on-plug (I'd need to add a cam position sensor) and dual wideband O2 sensor support. I might install that if the current MS II goes well.
http://ms3efi.com/product.html
Michael
1981 GTV6

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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by GTVSEX »

Hi Zamani
I will buy your SZ headers when you are ready to sell them....
John

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Michael
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Michael »

Running on Megasquirt!
The engine started up on the first twist of the key & the TunerStudio 'Autotune' feauture called VE Analyze Live works well! I'm sure I can get the mixture correct - but I am researching the ignition advance map still:
Does this look reasonable for the engine?
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Here is a screen shot from mega log viewer showing a tuning run. One can update the map offline using the feedback from this tool... or Megasquirt will update it itself using Tunerstudio. As example, at this moment the AFR is 14.7 which is too low for a max throttle run.
The current MAP showing which cells are active inthe AFR and Ignition maps are also shown.
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Awesome software!

One problem persists from the GoTech days - and that is an occasional misfire. I'm actually not sure how bad it is. Since the coil pack always looked dodgy and old, I'm replacing that with a new high power one next weekend. I hope that resolves the misfire issue...
Michael
1981 GTV6

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Michael
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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Michael »

For anyone interested, here is my current tune.
Suggestions appreciated!
Attachments
2011-01-30_17.27.40.msq
MSQ file as at 01/30/2011
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Michael
1981 GTV6

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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Duk »

Michael wrote:One problem persists from the GoTech days - and that is an occasional misfire. I'm actually not sure how bad it is. Since the coil pack always looked dodgy and old, I'm replacing that with a new high power one next weekend. I hope that resolves the misfire issue...
Perhaps go coil on plug to do away with 3 miles HT leads?

It looks like the Megasquirt software and hardware is evolving really well 8) . I can think of 1 well recognized after market ECU
maker down here that could learn a thing or 50 from them.

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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Michael »

Yes good idea - that is an option. I would need a cam reference sensor (and maybe Megasquirt III?) to go true coil-on-plug but I think I could fire 2 coils simultaneously in the same (3 ignition channel) wasted spark configuration as I have now without issue.

Anyone have 6 164LS coils I can buy?? It would be an interesting experiment.
Michael
1981 GTV6

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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by Zamani »

GTVSEX,

OK I'll let you know.

Mike,

Can you check on the registration question thingy? The spam is getting crazy. I don't even bother looking at new registrations, just flush them out of my inbox.

About MS2, are using the wideband with closeloop? I wonder how good does it compare with Autronic's autotune.
Dr. Alban

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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by fedezyl »

Ignition table looks about right as far as I can see, the only thing i'd change would be the idle advance, 22 seems waay too much for me, i'm running 8 degrees on my 33 16v (wedge combustion chamber, short stroke too) and I got best power when I went from 26 degrees advance to 21 degrees, these wedge type combustion chamber don't seem to like too much timing advance, about 36 degrees is what I have for low loads at cruising rpm's.
I got most of my ignition map done in reference to the original motronic one, if you want I have that ignition timing map from the 33 16v for reference, otherwise, very very nice!

By the way, what were the issues you were having with the gotech ECU? i'm going to use one on my V6 Giulie but i'm using MS2 on my 33, wich I like quite a bit

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Re: 3 liter, 24 valve engine project

Post by gran turismo »

I would need a cam reference sensor (and maybe Megasquirt III?) to go true coil-on-plug but I think I could fire 2 coils simultaneously in the same (3 ignition channel) wasted spark configuration as I have now without issue.
According to the DIYautotune tech support (who I bought mine from) the MS2 can have up to 6 separate ignition outputs with the right mods so yes you can do sequential COP ignition with MS2 on a V6.

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