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Jose I · Post by **Jose I** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:17 pm

Can one of you guys help me fill out this form, it's for my 3.0 12 valver
which will be super charged.

http://www.pauter.com/images/rodspec.jpg

Yes Greg, I'm soon coming your way

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:50 am

Pauter, isn't that those guys that have managed to design the rod in the least stiff way possible?

Why Pauter?

x-rad · Post by **x-rad** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:47 am

Check out Eagle rods. I used them in a 350+hp 2.03L 4G63 eclipse. No problems. I often hit 8000+ rpm and even accidental boost @28psi which blew the hoses off the manifold, no problem for these rods. Decent price 400-500$ for four. However, Alfa rods are not on their list, so I don't know what the cost will be. Might be worth checking out.....

twinspark6 · Post by **twinspark6** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:11 am

Eagle will not make an alfa rod. I already spoke to them. Eagle rods are very good quality for their price.

Jose I · Post by **Jose I** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:56 am

the reason is price, yes I will be Sup.charg the engine, but I'm not building a race car.
look at carillo rod $1600 thats insane. as soon as you say alfa prices fly through the roof (why) because they can ,
look at rods for other cars, even when you want custom made (to your specs) they remain the same if you have a Ford /Honda whatever. the only company that when you call dosen't say " yeh we make rod THATS ALL WHAT WE DO my friend........,six cylinder.., yeh you're looking at around $850 or so,
What was that ALPHA ROME who ooh ooh ,Alfa romeo (in the back ground you here CHA CHING..$$$$$) well those are different, those al cost ya say $1400 ta $1600 "

Puater on the other hand pretty much stay the same price, So much for 4 cyl,so much for 6 cyl, so much for 8,
no huge jumps in price just because it's an Alfa a Local place that that builds alot of custom engines said that the pauter rods would cost me around $1,176.00 for six (Sounds real good)

junglejustice · Post by **junglejustice** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:19 am

Jose!

Save yourself the trouble... I mentioned before that I have already gone down this path with Carrillo and Pauter; I have a jobber card open with both, I have purchased and used both in 4 cylinder builds and the Pauter rods in 3 Alfa V6s (successfully now) and I have 3 more sets on order as we speak...

220 per rod includes shipping to me - I could easily add a set to my newest order and have it diverted to you.

We have two versions - one for NA and one for boosted applications.

Jose I · Post by **Jose I** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:42 am

Thanks john I'll give you a call

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:09 pm

JJ: what engines have you used them in? What are the engines used for?

x-rad · Post by **x-rad** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:31 pm

Too bad about Eagle...

junglejustice · Post by **junglejustice** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:49 pm

If it is the old "....OH MY GOD! - Complete over-kill for a mere street-car..." argument that you are going for - save it. We have used them in a 156 3.7 (street car), a Milano 3.7 (track car) and in a GTV6 3.7 (race car) now...

A street-car with one of Dawie's newest compression/head/piston/cam combinations may need it/can use it in the end too.

We are now also about to use them in a couple of TT motors as well as my personal 3.7 (race/track) engine that went back to SA to get the specs bumped up over the 400 horsepower barrier...

Finding that PERHAPS (and I have to specificy/stress) PERHAPS the stock rods "lose shape" (mainly bolt-stretch) at the big-end with the power that we are finding in these motors....

With a mild 300/320 horsepower motor, you should be OK. We just don't want to take chances with some of these 400 plus horsepower builds...

Besides; these rods cost less than OEM 164, so why not just use these...?

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:24 pm

Hey, I was just interested...

It would be nice if you would share measurements if you tear down one of those engines, stretch and such.

terminator · Post by **terminator** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:29 pm

Speaking of stock rods, besides polishing
& shot penning. Are there other methods
to increase the strenght of the rods ?
What about cryogenics ?

Thanks

Micke · Post by **Micke** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:14 am

I'm not really a believer in the cryostuff.

But simple things help like rounding all the edges and see there are no sharp corners left. Lighten the small end (some rods have a lump there just to look funny I guess).

Balancing the rods doesn't help the rods themself but the balance of the entire lower end.

I didn't break my stock rods (2.0) yet and the engine sees above 8000 rpm.

junglejustice · Post by **junglejustice** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:27 am

Freezing helps with the blocks to stress-release them... I'm iffy on the rods though...

One thing to understand with the rods is that you DON'T want them strong and ridged... Place a Carrillo in the vice at the big-end and just pull on it by hand on the small-end... You will be amazed!

Even when just "seating bearings" before installation - you have to clamp the big-end itself down leaving some of the rod-cap and bolt exposed just enough to get the socket on the rod-bolts - don't even think about clamping the small-end and then toque'ing the big-end caps... Paper-weight...

Point is that the shot-peening helps a great deal to get rid of small edges and cracks before they start. We've done the plasma heat-treating and the heat/freeze cycle but we are cautious at this stage of making them any more ridged as the point of the Pauters for example is that they "give" under abnormal conditions such as ping.

A really stiff, ridged rod is outta there in no time.

Like titanium rods - they are for race teams with big budgets. They trash-can them after each race as the metal fatigue-rate is higher (however stronger over shorter periods...) Things are changing in the Titanium realm (just heard of a set with 23K kilos just changed out and driven hard daily at that!!!)

Jury is still out on Titanium though as a long-term-street use rod...

la_strega_nera · Post by **la_strega_nera** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:13 am

junglejustice wrote:Freezing helps with the blocks to stress-release them... I'm iffy on the rods though...

One thing to understand with the rods is that you DON'T want them strong and ridged... Place a Carrillo in the vice at the big-end and just pull on it by hand on the small-end... You will be amazed!

Even when just "seating bearings" before installation - you have to clamp the big-end itself down leaving some of the rod-cap and bolt exposed just enough to get the socket on the rod-bolts - don't even think about clamping the small-end and then toque'ing the big-end caps... Paper-weight...

Point is that the shot-peening helps a great deal to get rid of small edges and cracks before they start. We've done the plasma heat-treating and the heat/freeze cycle but we are cautious at this stage of making them any more ridged as the point of the Pauters for example is that they "give" under abnormal conditions such as ping.

A really stiff, ridged rod is outta there in no time.

Like titanium rods - they are for race teams with big budgets. They trash-can them after each race as the metal fatigue-rate is higher (however stronger over shorter periods...) Things are changing in the Titanium realm (just heard of a set with 23K kilos just changed out and driven hard daily at that!!!)

Jury is still out on Titanium though as a long-term-street use rod...

Titaniums issue is not fatigue. It galls if it is used as a friction surface. If it sees non reversed loads it will slowly grow shorter/longer.
Anyway, Honda has released a couple of Type-R's of various models with titanium rods.
Anyway, from an engineering viewpoint i'm convinced that most of what you just wrote is a load of bullshit. sorry chief.

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