Preliminary dyno results are in. Bill S. dynoed his car down in Louisiana. Bill's car is a Verde with what is basically an SZ spec 3 liter engine. It has 10:1 "S" pistons, "S" cams, IAP headers, big AFM, my stage 2 injectors, and mild porting with stock valves.
With a significant boost leak and a rev limiter stopping the fun early the car put 219 horsepower down at the rear wheels. That works out to about 274 flywheel horsepower with a 20% driveline loss.
The boost leak was through an intake runner to plenum rubber coupler. Bill never noticed it before and it was probably not a factor under vacuum but under boost any leak will manifest itself and power will suffer. The ECU was stopping the fun at 6300 RPM and power was still building strong so I expect this car to put out around 290 flywheel horsepower once all these problems are solved.
The car ran 93 octance pump gas with a can of octane booter from the local autoparts store thrown in, and he has water injection to help suppress detonation. The car never had any sign of detonation and performed well.
Bill bought the supercharger used off the internet and purchased all of the components needed from me. Normally I would not sell the stuff without the supercharger however Bill is a good customer and is very knowledgeable so I was confident he would get it all together OK. His kit runs the supercharger belt off the air conditioning belt slot because he put this together before I figured out how to deal with the Milano pulley problem. His car does have power steering but no ABS.
Equally exciting...I don't know where else to put this but since this is my thread I am putting it here. On my computer at home I have a file on my desktop named "Julian". It's the video of Julian's burnout which many of us have seen. Anyway my three and half year old son who has Down's syndrome has taught himself to play that video. He keeps sneaking into our office and playing the video over and over. I think that's pretty cool.
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
wow ! i dunno what to make of this.. 
first, thanks for taking the time and effort to bring this to the alfa community greg. u know how we like it, cheap but effective.
on the other hand, 10:1 compression, water injection? well, dont get me wrong, 274 and possibly 290hp is a lot more than i expected from a stock setup, but i wonder what a more "universal" test mule would bring... i dunno how pertinent this particular set up is.. bloody impressive numbers tho... and i s'pose 10:1 isn't much more than stock, particularly the verde.
i personally cant wait until this is done on a stockish 2.5, then possibly an afm-less one... moving on to the same with 3.0 litres i think would cover most people here..
good to know that this can be wrapped around a moderately hotted up n/a motor tho... only for the courageous of course..
finally greg, thats a great personal story to top it off. I myself played that vid more than once.
I dunno what else to say, suffice that i always knew you as a man of immense temperate character, somethings just stick out like a sore thumb you know? I know now where you get that from. You never cease to amaze me.
looking forward to the vid titled "greg out-smokes julian's virgin lungs" ... tehehe.
first, thanks for taking the time and effort to bring this to the alfa community greg. u know how we like it, cheap but effective.
on the other hand, 10:1 compression, water injection? well, dont get me wrong, 274 and possibly 290hp is a lot more than i expected from a stock setup, but i wonder what a more "universal" test mule would bring... i dunno how pertinent this particular set up is.. bloody impressive numbers tho... and i s'pose 10:1 isn't much more than stock, particularly the verde.
i personally cant wait until this is done on a stockish 2.5, then possibly an afm-less one... moving on to the same with 3.0 litres i think would cover most people here..
good to know that this can be wrapped around a moderately hotted up n/a motor tho... only for the courageous of course..
finally greg, thats a great personal story to top it off. I myself played that vid more than once.
I dunno what else to say, suffice that i always knew you as a man of immense temperate character, somethings just stick out like a sore thumb you know? I know now where you get that from. You never cease to amaze me.looking forward to the vid titled "greg out-smokes julian's virgin lungs" ... tehehe.
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
Thanks Joey. I know Bill's motor is not stock but it is set up with a typical HOT 3.0 combination, 164S pistons 164S cams, IAP headers etc. The water injection doesn't help with power any, it's just to suppress detonation and it may not be needed. I have no doubt that the headers and "S" cams help the numbers but the other mods don't do much for the supercharger. I suspect a stock 3.0 would have around 250 flywheel hp with the same supercharger set up.
I am trying to get to the dyno with my 2.5 car and I should be able to later this month. I can tell you it's darn fast and I am sure it will achieve my hp goals.
I am trying to get to the dyno with my 2.5 car and I should be able to later this month. I can tell you it's darn fast and I am sure it will achieve my hp goals.
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SydneyJules
- Verde
- Posts: 619
- Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:57 pm
- Location: Sydney
Firstly, Nice work Greg- cant wait to see the blower in action! could be my calling card to drop the 2.5s Comp down to 9 and put some boost into her?
Secondly, WTF are you getting at Joey!?!?!?!
I have now not smoked a cigarette for a week (remember in two week's time I am a poor student again!), and the only green things I smoke are Hondas!
Secondly, WTF are you getting at Joey!?!?!?!
I have now not smoked a cigarette for a week (remember in two week's time I am a poor student again!), and the only green things I smoke are Hondas!
Fixing it bit by bit....
greg, yeah i know about the water, but your kit being intercooler-less AFAIK + high compression, pretty handy to have that around..
may not be needed huh? jeez, that'll be pretty awesome to have a bunch of hot n/a motors running a s/c.. heh. there goes conventional wisdom. (never much liked it anyhow)
...out of interest can we have the boost numbers at peak power... it would be nice to have a boost graph - that test run was with the standard or modified l-jet afm right? what is the s/c speed relative to the crank? for both the 2.5 and 3.0?
jules, good to hear poverty has forced you to look after your health.
now you can trade tobacco for pirellis on a full time basis. 
may not be needed huh? jeez, that'll be pretty awesome to have a bunch of hot n/a motors running a s/c.. heh. there goes conventional wisdom. (never much liked it anyhow)
...out of interest can we have the boost numbers at peak power... it would be nice to have a boost graph - that test run was with the standard or modified l-jet afm right? what is the s/c speed relative to the crank? for both the 2.5 and 3.0?
jules, good to hear poverty has forced you to look after your health.
now you can trade tobacco for pirellis on a full time basis. -
Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
Julian, I am glad you quit smoking, it's bad for you and it burns up money you can use on something better.
Joey I am keeping boost levels low enough so an intercooler and water injection are not needed with stock compression. Bill's car has water injection and low boost for an extra level of safety with the higher compression and possibly higher boost in the future. Still, the current boost level is low enough so I think it would be OK without the water injection. This isn't really againt conventional wisdom, it's just LOW boost.
The test was run with modified L-Jet. The car has an unknown fuel ECU, the rev limiter was cutting in at 6300 so I think it might be a 2.5 ECU. It has my big injectors which are required on a 3.0 with my supercharger, and a bigger AFM. It also has a few minor injection mods that are included with the supercharger kit. Regarding boost numbers and drive ratios, lets hold off on that for now. I may still make changes and I have learned the hard way not to publsih stuff that I may change. Obviously the supercharger has to spin faster on a 3.0 then a 2.5 for a given amount of boost.
Joey I am keeping boost levels low enough so an intercooler and water injection are not needed with stock compression. Bill's car has water injection and low boost for an extra level of safety with the higher compression and possibly higher boost in the future. Still, the current boost level is low enough so I think it would be OK without the water injection. This isn't really againt conventional wisdom, it's just LOW boost.
The test was run with modified L-Jet. The car has an unknown fuel ECU, the rev limiter was cutting in at 6300 so I think it might be a 2.5 ECU. It has my big injectors which are required on a 3.0 with my supercharger, and a bigger AFM. It also has a few minor injection mods that are included with the supercharger kit. Regarding boost numbers and drive ratios, lets hold off on that for now. I may still make changes and I have learned the hard way not to publsih stuff that I may change. Obviously the supercharger has to spin faster on a 3.0 then a 2.5 for a given amount of boost.
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
That's not bad idea, but I think Bill's car is already flirting with the limits of the stock transaxle, connecting rods, pistons etc. If it were my car I would be a little scared to try for more power without upgrading some things in the engine. The standard kit does not have or need water injection.
Yes I am using a bypass valve.
Yes I am using a bypass valve.
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
RACE RESULTS ARE IN!
Bill's Verde set the fastest time in the very competitive SCCA Street Mod class and out ran many cars from other classes including ALL the Corvette Challange cars, some M coupes etc.
Cars in Bill's class included some really hot V8 Mustangs, a Nissan Silva clone, WRX and others. Every other car in his class was either a modified American V8 or turbocharged import.
I am very excited about this. My kit now has a lot of real world driving on the 2.5, dyno results and race results with the 3.0. I expect to start selling kits within the next 14-30 days.
The first two kits are my GTV6 prototypes and will be sold at a $300 discount. I would prefer to sell the prototypes to people on this board. They are functionally the same as production kits but have some use. Prototype Number 1 has a now used supercharger with about 1500 miles on it. It's brackets have some extra holes I drilled which it doesn't need and some cosmetic flaws. Once it's on the car it looks fine. Prototype number two has a brand new supercharger but has non standard pulleys and some used silicone couplers. The pulleys are the same drive ratio but both are a little smaller then the production kit. If you have a GTV6 and want one of the prototypes just e mail me.
Bill's Verde set the fastest time in the very competitive SCCA Street Mod class and out ran many cars from other classes including ALL the Corvette Challange cars, some M coupes etc.
Cars in Bill's class included some really hot V8 Mustangs, a Nissan Silva clone, WRX and others. Every other car in his class was either a modified American V8 or turbocharged import.
I am very excited about this. My kit now has a lot of real world driving on the 2.5, dyno results and race results with the 3.0. I expect to start selling kits within the next 14-30 days.
The first two kits are my GTV6 prototypes and will be sold at a $300 discount. I would prefer to sell the prototypes to people on this board. They are functionally the same as production kits but have some use. Prototype Number 1 has a now used supercharger with about 1500 miles on it. It's brackets have some extra holes I drilled which it doesn't need and some cosmetic flaws. Once it's on the car it looks fine. Prototype number two has a brand new supercharger but has non standard pulleys and some used silicone couplers. The pulleys are the same drive ratio but both are a little smaller then the production kit. If you have a GTV6 and want one of the prototypes just e mail me.
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
Oh, one more thing, the SCCA results are here
http://www.delta-scca.org/Jan16_05/jan1 ... esults.htm
http://www.delta-scca.org/Jan16_05/jan1 ... esults.htm
