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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
0-60 Time
Thanks Greg, What do you think your supercharger would boast this set up to?
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
Well, I don't have a setup for a 24 valve motor. Assuming I did it would easily add 40% more power. Of course when your car is already down near 6 seconds 0-60 the law of diminishing returns starts to kick in so it would probably only knock off 1/2 a second or so. I suppose a little more if you have really good traction. The real gains would be seen in 0-100 and especially higher.
The problem with supercharging a 24 valve motor is this. The 12 valver can make enough power with a supercharger to break the transaxle. So why introduce the complexity of an enigne swap and twice as many valves to get power you can't use.
Looking at it the other way. Even normally aspirated the 24 valve motors built by the South Africans can make enough power to break the transaxle so why add the complexity and take up underhood space with a supercharger?
The idea of a streetable 600 horsepower Alfa V6 is entirely realistic with a 24 vavle motor supercharged, intercooled etc. But what are you going to put it in? If someone sends me a car like that I will be happy to supercharge it, but I will be afraid of driving it.
The problem with supercharging a 24 valve motor is this. The 12 valver can make enough power with a supercharger to break the transaxle. So why introduce the complexity of an enigne swap and twice as many valves to get power you can't use.
Looking at it the other way. Even normally aspirated the 24 valve motors built by the South Africans can make enough power to break the transaxle so why add the complexity and take up underhood space with a supercharger?
The idea of a streetable 600 horsepower Alfa V6 is entirely realistic with a 24 vavle motor supercharged, intercooled etc. But what are you going to put it in? If someone sends me a car like that I will be happy to supercharge it, but I will be afraid of driving it.
0-60
Thanks for the input. I am just educating my self on Automotive engineering. For example I know way a HP is. This guy watt invented this concept. I think it is the same guy who invented the watt's linkage. Hp is the amount of power needed for a pony to lift 33,000lb of coal in 1 minute. Go figure. I am only posting this since it was an question of mine and I researched the answer. I think this stuff is facinating and you guys who know how to actually built stuff are very lucky. Mostly people just buy stuff from me and I do alot of paper stuff.
Ok, so I never had an Alfa with 270 HP. Will see what is is like when It is done.
Ok, so I never had an Alfa with 270 HP. Will see what is is like when It is done.
0-60 Time
You can see the Status of my Car Right now under introductions. It is basically as light as it can be. I really want to use it for the street and I am planning to put all the interior, etc back. What do you suggest to keep it light?
You're right!Micke wrote:BTW,
if HP is not an option to get the car faster you need to use my method. Lighten the shits of everything.
Instead of tuning 1300 kg from 200 to 250 hp lighten it to 900 kg.
And then tune it to 250 hp....
But I can hardly imagine that someone will be able to throw out 400 kgs of garbage from a GTV6 without spending a big amount to replace items with really lightweight ones.
And here comes another question in to the picture, cchen would like to have a fully functional daily use car with the possibility of doing the 0-60 in the 5s range, or he can live without all the doodads like seats on the back, real windows around, carpet etc.
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SydneyJules
- Verde
- Posts: 619
- Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:57 pm
- Location: Sydney
I have often wondered about a lightened road car- fibreglass bonnet, rear hatch, lexan windows (all round, except for front), and a pair of tilting buckets for rear seat access (if you use it).
Perhaps you could also do a one piece rear side window setup that still winds down (If there is enough space down the side? Ive never looked down there to know...).
Dont go silly on the doof doof system, get some light(ish) wheels...
As a road car, yeah 900kg is out of the question, but 1080 or thereabouts isnt.... and then the car handles better, stops better and goes better!
900kg is pretty damn light though- How do you get one down to that?
I like the idea of it- certainly a way to get my car moving better.... and cheaper in the short term than a bigger donk or a new donk altogether!
Perhaps you could also do a one piece rear side window setup that still winds down (If there is enough space down the side? Ive never looked down there to know...).
Dont go silly on the doof doof system, get some light(ish) wheels...
As a road car, yeah 900kg is out of the question, but 1080 or thereabouts isnt.... and then the car handles better, stops better and goes better!
900kg is pretty damn light though- How do you get one down to that?
I like the idea of it- certainly a way to get my car moving better.... and cheaper in the short term than a bigger donk or a new donk altogether!
Fixing it bit by bit....
It's quite hard to find a lighter wheel than the original Campagnolo magnesium one!
But it's true. 150 kg weigh down is a reality and it helps as much in acceleration as having an extra 30-40 hp under the bonnet in the 250 hp area. Since the weight to power ratio has the most influence on the acceleration.
But it's true. 150 kg weigh down is a reality and it helps as much in acceleration as having an extra 30-40 hp under the bonnet in the 250 hp area. Since the weight to power ratio has the most influence on the acceleration.
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Rookie ROX
- Gold
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:29 pm
- Location: Brisvegas, Australia
- Contact:
Micke hit the nail on the head right there - it's all about compromise. I think the problem your being faced with is trying to keep the whole thing reasonably original, but also wanting to bump up that power to something that will require either lots and lots of $$, or alternatively lots of $$ and converting to more modern techniques which will retract from the factory look.
As already mentioned, you've got the choice of putting lots of money (ie. $8k) into the engine to get it to pump out say, 270rwhp, leaving the rest of the car as original as possible.
Or, you can spend a little less money (say $3k for Gregs SC kit) on the engine to put out 220rwhp, and then spend some money on dropping the weight through the use of fibreglass bonnet, hatch, removing some interior, lighter wheels etc which will increase your power/weight ratio, and bring it up on par with the all engine option.
Of course those figures I've just pulled from the air and a bit exaggerated just to give you a clear idea, but you should understand what I mean.
Having said all of that, keep in mind that lighter wheels (be it modern like Team Dynamics or original like Campagnolo magnesiums as fastcar noted) will help you regardless of which option you take.
ROCK ON
R~R
As already mentioned, you've got the choice of putting lots of money (ie. $8k) into the engine to get it to pump out say, 270rwhp, leaving the rest of the car as original as possible.
Or, you can spend a little less money (say $3k for Gregs SC kit) on the engine to put out 220rwhp, and then spend some money on dropping the weight through the use of fibreglass bonnet, hatch, removing some interior, lighter wheels etc which will increase your power/weight ratio, and bring it up on par with the all engine option.
Of course those figures I've just pulled from the air and a bit exaggerated just to give you a clear idea, but you should understand what I mean.
Having said all of that, keep in mind that lighter wheels (be it modern like Team Dynamics or original like Campagnolo magnesiums as fastcar noted) will help you regardless of which option you take.
ROCK ON
R~R
0-60
I think I read somewhere on this BB that the stock wheels are 13 lbs. Is this true? I think they are 5 x 98 with a 37m offset? Is this the factory set up for the wheels. Now that the body, interior, engine has been decided I am thinking about the transaxle & suspension set up.
I know from experience of putting 19 inch rims on my Mercedes with out knowing what I was doing and just going for the look is not the best way to pick my tires & wheels. The car looks great with the Lorensos but the ride was not as good, the car did not handle as well, and I needed to replace the whole front bushings, etc since the car was not set up to handle these large wheels and tires. I should of just copied the
AMG set up.
Since we are on the subject of transaxle, what it the solution to getting rid of the 2nd gear syncho problem so it does not grind on upshits or downshift. Period, end of discussion. I can live with the longer shifts but I remember how much I hated the 2nd gear grinding. Whether it was my Alfa Sypder or GTV6, I can remember now, this was the worst part of the whole afla experience. I hope there is a solution to this problem.
I know from experience of putting 19 inch rims on my Mercedes with out knowing what I was doing and just going for the look is not the best way to pick my tires & wheels. The car looks great with the Lorensos but the ride was not as good, the car did not handle as well, and I needed to replace the whole front bushings, etc since the car was not set up to handle these large wheels and tires. I should of just copied the
AMG set up.
Since we are on the subject of transaxle, what it the solution to getting rid of the 2nd gear syncho problem so it does not grind on upshits or downshift. Period, end of discussion. I can live with the longer shifts but I remember how much I hated the 2nd gear grinding. Whether it was my Alfa Sypder or GTV6, I can remember now, this was the worst part of the whole afla experience. I hope there is a solution to this problem.
