Hi guys.
I want to have an aftermarket management system {feul and spark} put on the GTV6.
Can you please help me with the following info ?
1.Type and Placement of Pickup for rpm signal for the ECU...
ie. Magnetic sensor / Hall sensor or other....
2. 36-1 / 60-2 or other tyr of wheel.
Thanx..
The easiest is to fit the hall type disributor of the 75..Hall will trigger all types of efi..
Second best is to use your current magnetic type distributor .You will need a reluctor adaptor..small circuit,2 caps,resistor,transistor..
Lock the dizzy and phase the rotor.
More complicated is fitting a 60-2 reluctor wheel to the pulley..lot of graft..
Or 6 pips on the pulley,6 magnets on the pulley..mmm.lots of graft!
What system you fitting??
Second best is to use your current magnetic type distributor .You will need a reluctor adaptor..small circuit,2 caps,resistor,transistor..
Lock the dizzy and phase the rotor.
More complicated is fitting a 60-2 reluctor wheel to the pulley..lot of graft..
Or 6 pips on the pulley,6 magnets on the pulley..mmm.lots of graft!
What system you fitting??
French cars are shit and shit expensive to service and bloody awful and unreliable and expensive and friends don't let friends drive french cars and you wait years for parts.
How many teet does the 164 motronic use?Barry wrote:The easiest is to fit the hall type disributor of the 75..Hall will trigger all types of efi..
Second best is to use your current magnetic type distributor .You will need a reluctor adaptor..small circuit,2 caps,resistor,transistor..
Lock the dizzy and phase the rotor.
More complicated is fitting a 60-2 reluctor wheel to the pulley..lot of graft..
Or 6 pips on the pulley,6 magnets on the pulley..mmm.lots of graft!
What system you fitting??
A pulley from there... you might(will) have to relocate/switch waterpump/generator/ac-compressor and change belts tho.
The milano very sold, some day some other Alfa...
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Greg Gordon
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My dad and I are currently setting up a SDS system. It uses tiny magnets inserted into holes you drill in the stock crank pulley. I think that's a lot easier than a toothed wheel on a crank pulley. It also comes with the complete wiring harness, an incredible manual, phone service support that's excellent, and a tuner with an LCD screen so you don't need to hook up a laptop. It can provide a good idle even with large high resistance injectors.
This system is also very reliable and is used in many homebuilt aircraft.
Now for the down side to SDS. Installation is very labor intensive. You will spend days just making brackets for everything like the crank position sensor, and all the ignition stuff. Because it eliminates the distributor a plate will have to be made to block off the hole. However it's not simple because it has to hold down the distributor drive gear which spins and will tear up anything that just pushes down on it. It's also more expensive than Gotech. The system we are installing was about $1600 with all the sensors, tuner, etc.
My understanding of the basic Gotech system is that it uses the stock distributor to sense crank position. This makes installing a lot easier and you just can't beat the price.
This system is also very reliable and is used in many homebuilt aircraft.
Now for the down side to SDS. Installation is very labor intensive. You will spend days just making brackets for everything like the crank position sensor, and all the ignition stuff. Because it eliminates the distributor a plate will have to be made to block off the hole. However it's not simple because it has to hold down the distributor drive gear which spins and will tear up anything that just pushes down on it. It's also more expensive than Gotech. The system we are installing was about $1600 with all the sensors, tuner, etc.
My understanding of the basic Gotech system is that it uses the stock distributor to sense crank position. This makes installing a lot easier and you just can't beat the price.
You dont have to remove the distributor if it's not usedGreg Gordon wrote: Now for the down side to SDS. Installation is very labor intensive. You will spend days just making brackets for everything like the crank position sensor, and all the ignition stuff. Because it eliminates the distributor a plate will have to be made to block off the hole. However it's not simple because it has to hold down the distributor drive gear which spins and will tear up anything that just pushes down on it. It's also more expensive than Gotech. The system we are installing was about $1600 with all the sensors, tuner, etc.
My understanding of the basic Gotech system is that it uses the stock distributor to sense crank position. This makes installing a lot easier and you just can't beat the price.
Isn't the blocking plate for 164 just a plate with a return connector from the crankcase ventilation?
pricebeating; http://www.msefi.com
The milano very sold, some day some other Alfa...
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Greg Gordon
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- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
hmm, half a distributor then?Greg Gordon wrote:You do need to remove it if you need the space for a large liquid to air intercooler
I don't know what it is on a 164, but it's NOT simply a GTV6/Milano engine with a simple blocking plate.
Maybe lathe a bush that supports the (half) distr axle pushing down on the gear.The milano very sold, some day some other Alfa...
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Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
Jol,
That's almost exactly what we did. I will post a complete write up once the project is done.
Zamani,
The last thing I want is to get into the one EMS system is better than the other argument. I am sure they are all good. The reason for selecting SDS IN THIS CASE had a lot to do with all the unique variables involved in this specific car. I am sure Autronic is just fine.
That's almost exactly what we did. I will post a complete write up once the project is done.
Zamani,
The last thing I want is to get into the one EMS system is better than the other argument. I am sure they are all good. The reason for selecting SDS IN THIS CASE had a lot to do with all the unique variables involved in this specific car. I am sure Autronic is just fine.
Last edited by Barry on Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
French cars are shit and shit expensive to service and bloody awful and unreliable and expensive and friends don't let friends drive french cars and you wait years for parts.
Glad I asked thenBarry wrote:I was saving this til later...jol wrote:hmm, half a distributor then?Greg Gordon wrote:You do need to remove it if you need the space for a large liquid to air intercooler
I don't know what it is on a 164, but it's NOT simply a GTV6/Milano engine with a simple blocking plate.
And you got the lubrication issue dealt with aswell 
According to the 3L_update_Conversion.doc on the front page the oilpump itself on the 164 is different thus not requiring any axle to hold it down.
The milano very sold, some day some other Alfa...
-
Greg Gordon
- Verde
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:06 pm
Jol,The std 164 method of holding the gear to the shaft is bulletproof.
When it comes to pirating 2 oil pumps for a 116 GTV conversion,its another story.Sure,if you are prepared to sacrifice 2 pumps to get one working,ok.
What I have also done is drill and tap the op of the GTV oil pump drive shaft to take an M6 bolt.
One problem here..It can be overtightened very easily and jam the drive gear..So you have then got to loctite this bolt somewhere in mid air so it just holds the gear from moving up too much.
Bad news!We all know that a bolt should be torqued so it does not come loose.Now Im relying on Loctite here..Not good enough Im afraid.
Next best thing is the above mod.You dont have to go so elaborate,Ive used a solid piece of teflon/nylon/etc here..There is way plenty lubrication here,the gear actually gets pressurized oil here..
Greg,Thanks...Im just a bit concerned that the bottom :bowl: will act as an oil pump in operation..Ive made it hollow so it can fill up and retain lube,but it will also act as a pump..still pondering that..
Short term it works brilliantly.Id like to test it long term-100000miles ..Its easy enough to remove and check though.
When it comes to pirating 2 oil pumps for a 116 GTV conversion,its another story.Sure,if you are prepared to sacrifice 2 pumps to get one working,ok.
What I have also done is drill and tap the op of the GTV oil pump drive shaft to take an M6 bolt.
One problem here..It can be overtightened very easily and jam the drive gear..So you have then got to loctite this bolt somewhere in mid air so it just holds the gear from moving up too much.
Bad news!We all know that a bolt should be torqued so it does not come loose.Now Im relying on Loctite here..Not good enough Im afraid.
Next best thing is the above mod.You dont have to go so elaborate,Ive used a solid piece of teflon/nylon/etc here..There is way plenty lubrication here,the gear actually gets pressurized oil here..
Greg,Thanks...Im just a bit concerned that the bottom :bowl: will act as an oil pump in operation..Ive made it hollow so it can fill up and retain lube,but it will also act as a pump..still pondering that..
Short term it works brilliantly.Id like to test it long term-100000miles ..Its easy enough to remove and check though.
French cars are shit and shit expensive to service and bloody awful and unreliable and expensive and friends don't let friends drive french cars and you wait years for parts.
did you mean top when you wrote op?Barry wrote:Jol,The std 164 method of holding the gear to the shaft is bulletproof.
When it comes to pirating 2 oil pumps for a 116 GTV conversion,its another story.Sure,if you are prepared to sacrifice 2 pumps to get one working,ok.
What I have also done is drill and tap the op of the GTV oil pump drive shaft to take an M6 bolt.
One problem here..It can be overtightened very easily and jam the drive gear..So you have then got to loctite this bolt somewhere in mid air so it just holds the gear from moving up too much.
Bad news!We all know that a bolt should be torqued so it does not come loose.Now Im relying on Loctite here..Not good enough Im afraid.
Next best thing is the above mod.You dont have to go so elaborate,Ive used a solid piece of teflon/nylon/etc here..There is way plenty lubrication here,the gear actually gets pressurized oil here..
Greg,Thanks...Im just a bit concerned that the bottom :bowl: will act as an oil pump in operation..Ive made it hollow so it can fill up and retain lube,but it will also act as a pump..still pondering that..
Short term it works brilliantly.Id like to test it long term-100000miles ..Its easy enough to remove and check though.
cut the bolt to desired length and tighten the shit out of it
or use a washer or spacer.I meant that of the return hose from the valve cover breather supplied lube, but the two gears should get lube internally aswell.
We went somewhat offtopic with this one, apologies
The milano very sold, some day some other Alfa...