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aggarcia · Post by **aggarcia** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:59 am

Anybody have cams specs for factory cams left and right 60572874 or 60572873 ?

Thanks for your help.

Jim K · Post by **Jim K** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:40 am

These are the cams from the 164 2liter V6 Turbo motor and they have been renamed to 60602873 and 60602874, not a rare cam at all (renaming did not alter specs). Timing: 8*-42*-42*-1*. Lift: 9.1/8.6mm in/ex. These are not suitable for atmospheric engines.
Jim K.

aggarcia · Post by **aggarcia** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:32 pm

How well would these work in a 3.0 twin turbo car over say stock Verde cams or S cams? Where can I find more detailed specs like duration, lobe centers, etc? I would hope these would be a better option for a street/track turbo car.

Jim K · Post by **Jim K** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:27 pm

They obviously work well in the 2liter V6 with factory management. Its anyone's guess about the 3liter. These specs should give you all data. Go to AR factory literature for more.
Jim K.

aggarcia · Post by **aggarcia** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:50 am

The only problem is since this chassis and engine combination were never brought into the US, it is not listed in any of the Alfa technical material. I have asked my suppliers and they do not have anything since this was not available through US sources. Could you point me to a webpage or link that may have some of this information?

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:36 pm

Andrew,In my experience,the turbo cam will not work well in the 30l..If anything,you can actually go for a slightly "hotter" cam with a turbo.

Now I have not used the 2l v6 cams before,Ive actually not even seen any..If its the same as Alfa`s thinking when it came to the 1800 and 20l 4 cyl. turbo,it will suck performance wise.Now Ive tried the Alfa turbo cam and it gives good off boost drivability-but so did the old 10548 cams with a serious load more up top.

Imo,the turbo cam will choke the potential of your 30l turbo engine.I actually use an old Group1 race profile here on the turbo engines..

Greg Gordon · Post by **Greg Gordon** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:04 pm

Barry, how are the stock 2.5 or 3.0 cams with a turbo? It seems to me the factory cams worked out pretty well on the Callaway car.

Jim K · Post by **Jim K** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:32 pm

Here are some more specs for the V6TB: They use two alternate turbos, Mitsubishi MHI or Garrett T25. CR is 8:1 and valve sizes are 36.4/32.5mm. Timing varies with turbo used (!) and its 37-50-74-29 for MHI and 28-59-65-38 for Garrett. Duration is the same for both, 268*in/284*ex.
These things make 205-210hp and they are routinely chipped for up to 275hp. I don't know how these cams would work on a turbo 3liter, but the great difference in valve size should certainly be a factor to consider! You may have a winner there, who knows; all it takes is a test fit and dyno.
There seems to be some difference from the specs I posted 3 days ago. Those were taken from the factory specs booklet covering the first V6TB version made and timing figures refer to some preset (but not stated!) lift. These may be different than subsequent cars. Today's specs were taken from the official specs and repair Microfiches for the latest 164 Turbo models. All in all, these V6TB's have proved to be durable and potent engines in spite of the outdated management system used which BTW is far better than the one used in the 75 1.8T.
Jim K.

Maurizio · Post by **Maurizio** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:15 pm

You could try http://www.squadra-tuning.com/

I read somewhere that the owner self build a 2.8 turbo out of 2.0 and 3.0 parts for in a 916 spider.

Post by **Zamani** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:51 pm

The 2.8 Spider has 312 bhp. Not sure if it is his car though. I don't think he mentioned anything about the nokkenassen. He likes the Spider cams better than S cams, but that was all for an NA car (he and a Dutch 155 owner installed it in 155 V6 with good results).

Maurizio · Post by **Maurizio** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:54 am

He didn't mention the "nokkenassen"

only a other turbo.

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:22 am

Greg,very mild...more can be had with near zero loss down below with the grp1 cam..Id shoot for it each and every time unless absolute lowdown torque is essential..Even then Im not sure Id go with std. cam.

aggarcia · Post by **aggarcia** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:47 am

Barry,
Do you have any basic specs for the Group1 cams? The current thought was to use the S cams for this project. I have the option of stock Verde cams, Groupe A cams, Alquati hot street cams ( a little hotter than S cams ), or these V6 turbo cams. Since this will be a street car (inspected and emission dyno’ed) and will be tracked a least once a month, streetablitly is a must. We will be using the Callaway basic setup with slightly bigger turbots and programmable EFI. I would expect peak torque in the 2500-3000 range with peak HP in the 5000-5500. This is the time before the motor is assembled to do a possible cams change. Thanks for your input.

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:12 am

Andrew,I dont.
These cams date from the 80`s when we ran in Grp 1 racing here..If I can remember it was a copy of a CB cam ..
You should know it,its well known for really coming on strong at 4000Rpm..

Did not think Id say this but contact JJ ..He might have in stock..Otherwise pm me your mail addr.

What CR you aiming for and how much boost?Std valves??

aggarcia · Post by **aggarcia** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:00 am

CR is 7.5 with Forged 93 mm pistons, stock valves with ported heads. Boost will be limited to 12-15 lbs. The customer originally wanted to use the microfueler system, but later has decided to go with programmable system.

The Group 1 cams sound a lot like the Groupe A cams. Do they have very short lift 9.6 intake, with long duration?

Non US spec cam info needed