ALFAGTV6.COM

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:06 am

So the labour intensive work like packaging and balancing is better to do where the labour is expensive?

Jim K · Post by **Jim K** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:33 am

I'm going to repeat a few words here:
They are Chinese rods all right! They are made in the same place as Eagles. I ran all kinds of tests on the prototypes (surface and core hardness, microsectioning for grain checks, x-rays for inclusions/voids etc) They are STRONG and are supplied with ARP 2000 3/8" bolts. Do you think for a second I would propose them without extensive testing? I think the price is very good compared to the alternatives...for example in France, new std GTA rods cost ~700€ and here they are more than 600€ which is in the same ballpark as these! Complete weight with bolts is 590gr and variation in a set is less than 1gr (that was the resolution of the balance I used for this, I will repeat with a high accuracy one when I get the new set). Std GTA items weigh 622gr as sold and 603gr modified. Suffice it to say at this point that THS are 24% stronger at their weakest point than GTA rods-and those I repeatedly ran to over 7200rpm last Saturday at the track.
Here is a short paragraph from the book:
Performance rods are predominantly made of AISI 4340 alloy steel (lets leave Titanium out of this discussion). This iron-based alloy is composed of a number of elements like carbon, silicon, manganese, chromium, nickel and molybdenum. Very small percentage variations of these components and/or changes in the hardening profiles used result in different alloy and finished product characteristics. Every respectable rod maker claims to use their own special mix of ingredients and hardening methods for the best result (which is still a 4340 alloy). Carrillo make excellent quality V6 rods but price is a bit on the steep side for any DIY. Recently, an ever-increasing number of performance rods for many types of engines have been coming mostly from the Far East at very low prices. These products are made in Mainland China, Hong Kong, Taiwan and even India and the UAE. Understandably enough, many established rod makers have been trying (and still are) to build a wall of doubt regarding quality issues and discredit the newcomers in an effort to brainwash purchasers. In my search for an inexpensive V6 performance-racing rod, I decided to give these people a try as I had seen some of their products used in race engines and didn’t hear any adverse criticism. So, I sent a standard rod along with the factory specs to them and soon enough they replied with a drawing for my approval. It looked good enough and a month later I had a set of new rods for testing. This is where things became serious: I got a well-known top brand racing rod and proceeded to conduct mechanical and radiographic tests of both types, comparing alloy purity, surface and core hardness, checking for inclusions and/or voids, in addition to the simpler dimensional and rotational clearance (block fit) checks. When the cycle was completed, I submitted my measurements and suggestions to the rod maker who promptly accepted the proposed design changes. The result was an excellent quality stronger and lighter V6 rod, on a par with the best competition, suitable for any kind of possible racing use. A weak link in our V6 engines has been eliminated and the DIY can now get excellent components (complete with ARP 2000 3/8” bolts) for a price comparable to new factory Alfa V6 rods and about half that of the competition! You can get these rods from THS (UK) or from Greg Gordon, the US distributor.
For me, the rod subject is over, I'm 100% sure they're among the best you can find. China or Ivory Coast, if the product is tested the way these rods were, its enough for me.
Nice 'seeing' you all again!
Jim K.

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:31 am

Well,blow me over!! Im a penguins ass!
China....sorry guys.
I was led to believe the were from the UK.

Edit to add:
I have no problem with Chinese rods..I spoke about them ages ago.I was under the impression that they were made in the UK.

And now Im outta here!
Work to do...

Greg Gordon · Post by **Greg Gordon** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:32 am

JimGreek's post pretty much answers all the questions about quality. He knows far more about rods (and the other engine internals) than I do so I can't really add anything to that.

Thanks Jim.

I am glad it seems that most people are OK with this being in the forum. This way a lot of people can benifit from the wise questions that experienced folks like "twinspark6", Mats, Zamani, etc. ask. In the classified section questions have to be asked and answered via private messages and emails. This sort of defeats the forum concept where newbies gain from the veteran's knowledge and experience.

I am not going to be talking about these rods on other threads. Everytime someone asks about rods, rpm limits etc. I am NOT going to jump in and say "hey, you need THS rods" I don't do that with any of my products.

junglejustice · Post by **junglejustice** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:33 am

Jim K · Post by **Jim K** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:01 am

Rod:571gr + bolts:50gr = 621gr total.

twinspark6 · Post by **twinspark6** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:19 pm

Thanks for the answers guys. Zamani is right about the quality of stuff that's coming out of China. Some items can be good and others can be bad. That's why I asked about Quality Control. That's what it really comes down to. The H beam design is proven and has worked well for me in the past. If the quality is the same as Eagle. I can vouch that they can take the 700hp. Other things will break way before that hp mark.
By the way guys. My name is Marcelo. aka Chelo

Greg Gordon · Post by **Greg Gordon** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:23 am

I need to clarify that the photo JungleJustice put up is NOT a picture of a THS connecting rod. It's some other rod. I don't really know what it has to do with this thread.

The THS rods are in the pictures below.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:03 pm

Isn't it a std Alfa rod for comparison?

Greg Gordon · Post by **Greg Gordon** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:58 pm

I suppose it is. However with the lack of text associated with the post and the number of different rods mentioned here, it's less than clear just what it is. Especially to someone who hasn't seen the various rods in question.

x-rad · Post by **x-rad** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:24 pm

Anybody want to answer my question?

fastcar · Post by **fastcar** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:49 pm

We have quite limited number of tuned V6s here in Hungary, but never heard that someone had a problem with them.
My former engine was a 3.0 used up to 6700, drive hardly, as I can say it spent 60% of its life over the std redline, and there's no wear. This engine can be found now in a friends rally-car, so it lives hard days still. They dismount the engine in the off-season, but there's nothing with it.
My other friend has a 2.8 liter running easily up to 7.5k or sometimes more, and he doesn't have problem too.
My GTA engine also running up to 7.5k and do it all the time!

Visit most of the dragracing events and the track days as possible. And it's runnig fine.

All of these running on std con rods.

junglejustice · Post by **junglejustice** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:18 pm

Sorry, yeah - somehow the text in the post got deleted and I went to bed right after making it - didn't see it again until now...

It is a stock GTA rod without bolts as Jim noted - just thought I would post it for a visual comparison.

junglejustice · Post by **junglejustice** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:56 pm

...and where I was going with this (since part of the topic seems to have included the weight), one of the things we were after was a reduction in the combined weight (or at least an equal to stock combined final weight) for a particular new piston/rod assembly (particularly in a big-bore, since the piston speeds go through the roof with some of the combinations and weight is therefore pretty important...)

A combination of good rods though (such as the ones that Jim/Greg suggested, or the ones that we use), with good pistons (even if the bore-size is increased from say 88mm - or 93mm in the 3.0 and 3.2 - to almost 100 in the 3.7) will get you there!

In the pics below I tried to keep it pretty fair and equal with bearings included and the wrist-pins separated (stock versus after-market) and then the pistons and wrist-pins weighed together! (You will find that the tapered forged steel c'molly wrist-pins that come with the pistons that we use, are pretty important to the whole combined weight equation!)

junglejustice · Post by **junglejustice** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:57 pm

In the end we get a total combined stock weight of 1,234 grams for the 3.2 GTA 93mm combination and 1,211 grams for the chrome molly forged steel rod and wrist pin and forged aluminium alloy piston combination...! ALL of it stronger, 23 grams lighter overall, an increase of 450 to 500 ccs and compression to choose from in the finish of the tops!