ALFAGTV6.COM

[Zamani]

Jim,

I want to weld up a set of cams for my 24V. So I need the profile data.

Ben,

Not 100% sure yet, but I would need your original cams. However, someone local may already be interested, but I will let you know if it doesn't work out.

[la_strega_nera]

Ah, fair enuff. Much easier if someon local is keen.

[Jim K]

Z, I went to the cam grinder today. He has a set of reground (upgraded) 3.2 cams and he wants (my price) 320Euros for the work and 200Euros for the cores. If you send me your (good) 3.2 cams you only pay 320+shipping (which will probably be expensive considering total weight). As far as welding goes, it should not be the preferred practice. Why weld? You can decrease the base circle up to 1.5mm (for hyd. lifters) and gain both lift+duration. There are many profiles one can choose from, depending on cat/decat or ITB's.
On another note, my mechanic removed the 1.8T from his 75 and will install my long-finished 24v 3liter. The engine will be in the car by Tuesday/Wednesday if we manage to finish with the different engine mount arrangement (from 4cyl to 6cyl). About a day in the exhaust shop for connecting the headers to the tailpipe and we should be able to start it by year's end!
My second 75Turbo (the 24 year old) is losing the engine Monday and is going into the body shop for a total beauty treatment; repair of rusted spots, seam welding, installation of the Veloce version fiberglass hood, deck lid, fenders, nose and skirts plus a total (external+engine bay) paint job.
Jim K.

[darryl longley]

Finally the awaited book is due out
Ive been running a gtv6 on and off for 25 years and have followed various threads on this and the alfa bb forum but to have a book explaining all the the in and outs of the v6 engine would be gold of dust to novices like me who 90% of the time havent a clue what you experts are on about

Unfortunatley my 3.0 l gtv 6 (12valve standard but very clean 75 engine) was involved in a front end bump last summer and after my insurance pay out i bought a 2005 gtv(916) 3.2 v6 which is a much more modern car but has the same charisma and full on sports car appeal thanks to that v6 engine
So because of the fact my gtv6 is laid up till i decide what to do with it Ive not been on this site for a good six month but since logging on its good to see the book is finally on its way
Put me down for one please please pretty please with sugar on top
It would be a fine tribute to this iconic engine

[Jim K]

I'm not sure I understand what you intend to do but if you plan to transplant the 24v engine into the gtv6 you must be aware of the problems you will face regarding engine management. There are several functions of these later 24v ecu's which must be properly/professionally disabled in order to allow unrestricted engine operation. These ecu's deal with all kinds of input signals from the car like airbags, abs, antispin etc. If these functions are not properly disabled, the ecu will only operate in 'safe-mode' and you will have a crippled engine with limited performance. All this, provided that you wish to retain the standard management system. If you go aftermarket, you don't have to worry about it but its a whole different game and you're in for a lot more work.
Jim K.

[Zamani]

JK,

After looking at some of the prices of used motronic parts, nowadays, it makes more sense to go after-market, at least here in the US. Just to give you a clue, used motronic ecu for 24V 164 is US$400. New (why would one buy a used flapper anyway, will fail eventually) AFM $400. Not to mention EXTREMELY difficult tuner availability to program the motronic. And they charge an arm and a leg just for a mapping session. Maybe different in Europe, but here, forget it, go Motec/Autronic/GOTech/etc , only a little bit more and the wiring harness will be NEW not some brittle 20 year old stuff that will crack short and leave you standard or start a fire in the car. At least when there is an O2 sensor error this after-market stuff will say O2 sensor error not 1223 or 1225, WTF is all that anyway

You must be quite tired of hearing me say this, but what the heck

[Jim K]

You may be right for the US, but in Europe we can get much cheaper parts from junkyards and even find great deals many times in ebay. For example, I bought 164QV ecu's on two separate occasions for 30Euros and 45Euros and the large QV afm for 30Euros once and a brand new one for 80Euros! You just gotta watch for these things and have some patience. We bought a 166 3liter 24v engine last week from a used parts joint for 1700Euros. 3.2GTA engines go for ~3-4k. A friend last month bought a damaged (front left) 2004 156GTA stw for 2500Euros...he plans to stuff the engine in his 3liter 75 and sell the rest of the car; the wheels alone may bring 800 and the leather interior another 600...As for mapping std ecu's on the dyno, prices here range from 300-400Euros. Complete aftermarket ecu +installation + mapping ranges from 1500-6000 (!) depending on ecu and application.
Jim K.

[Zamani]

JK

I'm thinking of a GTA engine myself. Found one in the UK for a VERY reasonable price. Just add some modified cams and call it good. The headers that I have will be way better than the catalysed GTA headers, plus the ecu I have. 280 bhp might not out of reach after all! But what about the RWD flywheel and pulley, they're not balanced as a unit with these FWD engines. However so many people have done 24v conversions without balancing the whole rotating assembly, that maybe its really a non issue for street engines. Thoughts? Kevin?

But would be a shame to abandon away my 3.0 24v though.....

[Jim K]

I know many people do it, but even the thought of a possible imbalance is not acceptable to me -why chance accelerated bearing wear? On the other hand, I personally would never stuff an engine in my car without taking it apart first, so technically (for me) its a non-issue. I am aware that just a simple essential-parts rebuild is very costly if you're not in the business so I can understand those that just bolt on a rwd flywheel and forget it. Like I say in the book, I've had one flywheel that needed a single pea-size hole to balance and another which needed a series of large holes! Its a roll of the dice!
If I were you, instead of buying a 3.2, I'd spend the $$ to improve my 3liter. You can easily attain the same power level. Remember the heads/valves are the same, you only get a few more cubes, different cams and a headache called oil pump/oil pan.
Jim K.

[kevin]

If I don't strip an engine when converting a 24v into 116gtv , I just take existing flywheel and old gtv flywheel down to our airport where they do balancing and copy balance factor from one to the other.(and a little lightening at same time) .
Regarding sump on chain driven pumps , I have made a spacers to add to sump from old style 12v when using this sump on new 24v. Got to be careful on clearance of steering rack

[la_strega_nera]

Z - you can use the GTA flywheel with a donut adaptor - Daniel has done this with his, there's pics somewhere and can probably supply drawings or the part itself. The GTA flywheel is only 8kg.

[fedezyl]

Z - you can use the GTA flywheel with a donut adaptor - Daniel has done this with his, there's pics somewhere and can probably supply drawings or the part itself. The GTA flywheel is only 8kg.

mmm, interesting, i'd love to get my hands on those drawings, a GTV6 or 75V6 is hard to find, not to say nearly impossible to get here in south america, good solution and I can keep the 164 flywheel

[kevin]

Z, just out of interest I'm getting 6kw more out of 3.0 24 v with just cams than ,light head skim than my GTA 3.2 . Don't give up on that 3.0

[la_strega_nera]

Here's the pics of Daniel's setup:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2016&p=22540#p22540




Dan used a 164 Auto flywheel, the GTA flywheel should be no different in terms of the adaptor.

[fedezyl]

Thanks mate, i've been thinking about doing the same on the V6 for my giulie, but the problem is sourcing good quality bolts for the crank, i'm going to look around tomorrow to see if I can find some.
What grade would you guys think would be good? 12.9 as per matfo's conversion?

Sorry Jim I hijacked your thread a little bit, i'm on the final stages on my first V6 conversion and i'm trying to define the best route to take...
I'm using a 164 12v by the way.