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Duk · Post by **Duk** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:57 am

Curious about the sensoring of photo's

. You were more than generous with the photo's for Super Red Verde Greg, have you improved your design of the supercharger mount/discharge plumbing?

Greg Gordon · Post by **Greg Gordon** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:20 am

Hi Duk,

The basic supercharger kit is essentially exactly the same as SuperRedVerde. The discharge port is now Fusion welded instead of TIG welded, but that's about the only change, and it makes no functional difference. The Fusion welds just look a little better.

The photos of SuperRedVerde on my site are uncensored. Anyone who knows where that page is, or who can find the page for this car can view the uncensored pictures. I generally censor photos on forums to prevent someone from trying to directly copy the kit without contacting me first. I really don't care if someone copies it but I would like the person to discuss it with me first so they can avoid the issues I have already worked out. We may actually put the plans for the whole kit in my upcoming book on supercharging. That's for the hardcore do it yourselfer.

Greg

Duk · Post by **Duk** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:52 pm

Hi Greg,
when is your book coming out? You could perhaps sell the plans for your kit seperately as well.

Greg Gordon · Post by **Greg Gordon** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:22 pm

Hi Duk,

It could be out in a week, or a couple months. It's done, just need a couple days to do some final touches and get it to the printers.

There is zero chance I will sell plans without the book. That would increase my already tech support heavy e mail load. The book answers nearly all the question people seem to ask.

Greg Gordon,
www.hiperformancestore.com

Rookie ROX · Post by **Rookie ROX** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:22 pm

Greg Gordon wrote:That would increase my already tech support heavy e mail load.

Sorry Greg!

ROCK ON
R~R

Greg Gordon · Post by **Greg Gordon** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:46 am

No problem! I enjoy tech support, however it's very difficult to fully answer certain questions in a short email. Since I seem to get the same complex question over and over, it makes sense to have a book with pictures, charts, etc.

Greg Gordon,
www.hiperformancestore.com

Greg Gordon · Post by **Greg Gordon** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:14 pm

Well, the heat exchanger needs ducting so I will have to take the grill and headlights out and make something tomorrow.

The heat exchanger's deep fins may help prevent air that hits the front from flowing around the core, however I think when it's installed in an actual car air pressure builds up between the heat exchanger and the A/C condenser. I am not seeing the decrease in off boost temps at speed I should be seeing. Here is what we see:

1. Intake air temps when stabilized off boost are about 40F above ambient. That's about exactly what we see on a non intercooled motor.

2. Under boost we only see a 4F-6F rise in temp, indicating that the intercooler is holding the temps down very well as boost temps out of the blower rise about 160F at redline.

So what I think is happening here is the intercooler's liquid is stabilizing at a relatively high temperature due to engine compartment heat and lack of airflow through the heat exchanger's core. Under boost when the temp rises the intercooler takes out most of the increased heat because it does work, at least until the intercooler starts to heat soak, which doesn't really happen on runs from 0-75 because they are so quick.

I should have known better. I used ducting with great success before, but I listened to an expert from the local speed shop on this one and thought I could go without it.....

I will get all this worked out tomorrow.

Greg

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:58 pm

Gut feel ftw ,hey Greg ?

Greg Gordon · Post by **Greg Gordon** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:51 am

It's at least as much gut feel as science, as these things sometimes are. I am pretty sure it's a ducting issue. If not the intercooler pump isn't doing it's thing. I will get it worked out today.

Greg

Evert · Post by **Evert** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:45 pm

Hallo Mr Gordon,
Nearly same ploblem occured with an Alfa 75 Turbo racer in a team I sometimes work for. In the 75 a Lancia intergrale turbo engine was installed with a huge air-air intercooler in front of the radiator.
Between the intercooler and radiator was aprox 12 cm's.

The engine deliverd around 400-450 hp.

Copyright JS-Racing.net

[/quote]
Copyrighy alfaclub Netherlands.

A problem was constant overheating of the enigine. The turbocracks thougt the intercooler such a long way from the radiator caused the problem.

I thought it was wrong interpretation of aerodynamics.
At the end of the hood they cut a big gap. In front of the gap an airscoop.
The space of the left frontlight was wide open for cool air for the compressor intake.

I was convinced these opening did create backpressure inside the enginebay. Blocking the ridewind to go thrue the intercooler and radiator.

Simply using a plastic bucket to close the opening and fit the compressorinlet with filter into it.
And close the big gap on the hood and replace it with two smaller and longer gaps with aluminium louvres did the job. Its important to place the louvres as far back as possible, because the ridewind pressure at the beginning on the hood is high.

The louvres create a underpressure (talk to the airplane guy about wings) and stimulate a better flow of ridewind through the enginebay.

No more overheating problems.... Soon other problems followed.

Evert · Post by **Evert** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:24 pm

Double Dutch

Greg Gordon · Post by **Greg Gordon** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:26 pm

Thanks for sharing that. Airflow issues are somewhat tricky to sort out because airflow is not entirely predictable and most of us don't own windtunnels.

That's one wicked looking 75!

It turns out, not only is there a ducting issue, but the pump has a magnetic drive coupler that prevents it from pumping its rated output under any real conditions. It's OK, but I probably won't use a Cobra/Lighting pump again. I prefer the GMC Syclone unit.

Greg

twinspark6 · Post by **twinspark6** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:49 pm

Greg. All the syclone guys replace their pumps with Johnson. Here is a link where the upgrades are purchased. By the way. The syty crowd run the pumps continuous. http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/

Greg Gordon · Post by **Greg Gordon** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:12 pm

Hi Twinspark,

Thanks for that info. I used the Johnson pump on a Milano I built. I figured a Cobra/Lighting pump would be a better choice. It's Bosch, it's from a more common vehicle, and it's for a V8. I was wrong, the Johnson pump is better. The Ford unit is not a bad pump, just not a good as the Johnson pump.

Today we retorqued the heads, put on a smaller supercharger pulley and evaluated that pump situation. Tomorrow I hope to finsh the ducting and start the final tuning. I am anxious to get it to the dyno.

Greg

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:18 am

Evert wrote: Its important to place the louvres as far back as possible, because the ridewind pressure at the beginning on the hood is high.

The louvres create a underpressure (talk to the airplane guy about wings) and stimulate a better flow of ridewind through the enginebay.

No more overheating problems.... Soon other problems followed.

[/quote]

This is totally contradictory to pretty much all I have read about automotive aerodynamics. The slat with louvres or deflector should be placed as far forward as possible to tap into the large low pressure area at the front of the hood. Further rearward towards the windscreen there is a big over pressure area that you need to stay away from.