ALFAGTV6.COM

[lucass81]

I have an euro GTV6 with autodelta cams. It has 150.000km and needs new piston rings. The stock Bosh system isnt working to well, I want to replace it with something like a Motec for example. I want the car to be tuned the closest to perfection and extract every hp posible. I thought about carburators but I want the intake to look stock since its used in some classic cars events. My goal its a real 200hp 2.5. Should I spent money in a Motec or similar? Should I change to a 155 V6 Bosh motronic? or fix the stock Bosh?

[mjr]

full spec of the engine? impossible to comment without.

[Greg Gordon]

For peak horsepower it doesn't really matter which engine management system you use. Every system I know of is capable of maintaining a 12.5:1 AFR which is about ideal for power, they all control timing pretty well too.

Even the old L-Jet system can allow you to reach your peak horsepower goal, although power throughout the rpm range will be lower with L-Jet.

Greg Gordon,
www.hiperformancestore.com

[Zamani]

One of the 200 bhp recipe is the autodelta one which I think it either on this website or on Greg's website.

There's one SCCA racer who sometimes post on this forum, Allen Mitchel who has the CF driveshaft. I think his 2.5 makes around 200 bhp and it doesn't have extremely high compression. I think something like 10 or 10.5:1. His car is running Megasquirt. I think VEMS should be something to look into as well.

But as someone said earlier, let us know planned spec for the engine.

[lucass81]

The spec of the motor I dont really know since my father bought it in 1992 and it was already modified with the autodelta cams. Before it started losing power it keeped up with 328i Bimmers without problems and beated some stock 150hp Golf GTIs and 150hp Megane Coupes among others.
I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina. About an hour ago I received an email from the MOTEC oficial dealer. He has the Motec M48 Clubman for u$s2.320. Its that expensive? I dont know how much it costs in other countries. For me its too expensive for so little gain.

[fedezyl]

The spec of the motor I dont really know since my father bought it in 1992 and it was already modified with the autodelta cams. Before it started losing power it keeped up with 328i Bimmers without problems and beated some stock 150hp Golf GTIs and 150hp Megane Coupes among others.
I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina. About an hour ago I received an email from the MOTEC oficial dealer. He has the Motec M48 Clubman for u$s2.320. Its that expensive? I dont know how much it costs in other countries. For me its too expensive for so little gain.

Hey Lucas, considering you are in Argentina, ergo South America (i'm in Uruguay) i'd say the price for the Motec although expensive, it's withing of what I would think it would cost over there.
I bought about a year and a half ago a Gotech Pro EFI with coil packs, around that time it cost me 1200 dollars the whole thing, haven't installed it yet as I am getting around to finding all the parts to finally put the V6 in my Giulietta.
I'd think the least expensive route would be to find a Motronic EFI from a 164 and have it installed on the GTV6, you can have the ECU reprogrammed by several people over there in Buenos Aires who do a pretty good job. The other route would be the one I took, I chose the Gotech as there are several Alfisti's who own one and have maps for them, and given that I have no experience programming an EFI it is a very good thing that there already are maps for a range of engines.

[mjr]

shame you dont know the specs, but id be surprised if anyone would bother installing autodelta cams into a stock motor, without addressing fuel and breathing. I bet it has stage 2 head work. the goal of a genuine 200hp from a 2.5 isn't hard to achieve these days. quality head work, 10.5 comp ratio, the cams, motec or the like. should achieve.

2.5s were worked over here UK in Surrey by chapparal, the late 90s with fastroad cams, stage 2 head work, 10.5:1 comp hepolite pistons, Ljet and standard exhaust manifolds, putting out 205-210hp flywheel, though the cam profiles were too agressive for town driving. I wouldnt mind betting the old autodelta recipe with modern ecu would achieve circa 220hp.

[lucass81]

I know the mechanic that build this motor back in 1988. He is Italian and in those times he traveled to Italy very often, he brought some Autodelta parts including the cams to modifie this GTV6 for its previous owner. When my father bought it I was 11 years old so didnt know much about it except that it had Autodelta cams. In the last few years I asked many times to this mechanic to tell me what exactly were the modifications made to this car. He descrived to me many things but briefly and he told me he has everything writen down in a folder at his home. But he always forgets to get it for me. Talking in mind the cars I beated in this Alfa many times it probably has the 200hp Autodelta motor from that times. Remember that it was modified in 1988 and it hasnt been opened since. It even has the same piston rings. And it never idled with the AC on.
So I think I should go for a Motronic or something like a Motec but cheaper. Although six carburastors like the 280hp Snobeck is very tempting.

[Duk]

The hardest part of adding an aftermarket computer is always the crankangle sensor interface.
Fortunately most computers are pretty flexable and user friendly these days.
For a capable computer that I would use myself, I would reccomend either a Haltech E6X or the E8 (the E11 would be way overkill). I Also like th EMS 4424 (if you don't need sequential injection) or the 8860 (if you do).
Another Aussie computer which is a quiet achiever is th Adaptronic E420c. It rates very highly for programable inputs and outputs but like the EMS4424 only has 4 injector and ignition outputs, so it can't be set up as a true sequential system (but I'd still use 1 )

[Giuliettaevo2]

for the motronic you would also need a TDC-sensor... this reguires also the front engine cover (where the sensor mounts to) and the crankpulley ( where the 60-2 ring is on).

maybe you're better off with a Gotech system or if your handy with electronics a Megasquirt.

[Dennis]

Ask around for a good dyno-shop and a guy who can properly program an engine. Get the computer he is familiar with. It doesn't matter how good the EFI is if the ,ap is all wrong. Powerloss, engine failures, etc.. A programmable EFI is as good as the guy who made your map.

A ready map for a megasquirt or Gotech might be right for your engine, maybe not......

[SydneyJules]

That isn't too bad for a Motec... it's about the same price as an E11v2 Haltech- however, the Haltech can run closed loop and sequential injection on 6 cyl- I think from memory the M48 will only run sequentially on four, and waste spark for 6 cyl. Specs are on their page, anyway- I'm too lazy to check right now!

Unless you want things like closed loop, then there's no real point going for the upper end of the ECU scale, and with most ECUs having very adaptable load points, Dennis is spot on- time on the dyno and on the road with any system will give good driveability, especially considering it's not an over the top motor (in terms of internals and injectors etc)- you're not going to run into problems with ECU not being able to pulse large injectors for good idle and light load throttle response, but the fuel economy on long, light load highway trips, or even in shorter fourth gear city trips probably won't be as good as something from the top end of the market. Time spent on temperature correction tables will help with reliability, and cold start is a bitch, because you only get one real shot at it every day- first thing in the morning!