ALFAGTV6.COM

[kevin]

Jim, we suffer from a small country syndrome down on the tip of Dark Continent hence we have to try prove we are bigger ie rugby, big bores, gold mines etc.
As our GTV 3.0l were limited(in parts as well) and sanctions prevented us from seeing the 75 we never got to see and appreciate how well the 75 went thus it was easier to start playing with the 24v 3.0l. This 24v 3.0l was not a huge leap from the old 12v as we are 6000ft above sea level so big bores were introduced. To get anything to go here in johannesburg you have to boost it or enlarge it. Except our women
I personally would prefer the 75 3.0l motor with your above mods thus we are holding on to the only one here. Sadly the motor is &*^%ed.
You have put me on right path but piston price maybe reasonable to you guys but we are paying with ''banana'' money so I am going to shop around a bit. valve springs will be sourced from spruell and THS rods are available.
Other info above will be implemented.

[Jim K]

Hmmm...I don't know but I would try it another way. I am aware the 75 1.8T never made it where you are, but junkyards abound in Europe. This engine is lighter, super-reliable and makes gobs of tractable power in 1800cc's when properly built. I find it strange you haven't sourced a bunch of them down there! 250-350hp is a joke to build and comes with a lot of torque. For this kind of power, you don't even have to change anything internally (pistons, liners, rods, valves, crank etc)
Doing the 1.8T would also be a lot cheaper than the 24v; just think of the relative cost of cams, a huge difference in itself! I'm sure someone could conjure up a reliable and powerful 'recipe' for the 1.8T, just as they have for the 24v. The biggest expense would be the actual turbo, ~1100 USD.
Used 1.8T engines I see for ~500-900Euros and Turbo gearboxex go for ~250-350 (LSD, 3.91:1)
Jim K.

[Duk]

My suggestion is to use the Motronic system with the 60-2 crank pulley (even order this part new as I did for ~60Euros a few years ago). If you have aftermarket ecu's for free (or almost as you do down there) go for them. Isn't anyone the least curious about how well a remapped factory ecu will work? Come on, not everyone has an interest in profit all the time!!

I'm all ears to hear about the Motronic!
I was after info and/or software that would tell me where in the chip the maps are for fuel and ignition, but that info seems to be held very closely to the chest of the few who claim to know. Or what little that is out there (maybe it's a language barrier ) isn't compatable with the 4.1 system or is simply overpriced (can we all say Aftermarket Programable System that is newer, has way more features and fewer limitations????)
A complete contrast to the information, interface hardware and support for Nissan, Ford, GM Delco and Honda systems.

[Jim K]

I don't get that far into the chip business, reason being the number of shops in my area that remap oem ecu's. Almost all dyno shops here can map most brands of oem management for ~300-350Euros a session. If you do this 2-3 times a year its not bad, but if you change things all the time and want a remap to suit, you're better off with aftermarket DIY ecu. These will give you 'higher speed' and 'better resolution' but for less than starship expectations and other superfluous additional features, I will stick with oem.
If one is interested to do mapping for themselves and even make a business out of it, there are several places that rent/sell a complete package for most cars with updates for new models. A couple of good ones are 'Dimensione Sport' and 'All Car Racing' in Italy.
Jim K.

[kevin]

Jim, we had a special run of 50 Alfa super Turbos(alfetta shape) made in our Alfa factory here (also some giulietta turbos). My dad had one which i then took over. They produced 150kw at .6 bar boost which was very strong in 1983. Alfa never got homologation as they needed over 200. At the same time the GTV3.0 project started which proved to be more succesful even though they were twice the price so this was abadoned. Problem was these Super turbos were using high pressure carbs with distributors, so as soon as boost was increased to 1 bar problems came thick and fast. None of of the Alfa racing team guys here new anything about electronics so the development of turbos up to 1985 was zero. Hence the GTV 3.0 also had carbs.
Alfa then pulled out in 1985 (sanctions - bankruptcy etc). Thus an end of an era.
If our factory had guys like Barry running electronic development programmes who knows what could have been produced. I think Barry was the very first guy in SA to bring in after market ecu's(haltec) and this was quite some time after Alfa pulled out.
I think a lack of electronic knowledge put guys off from trying to extract big power from turbo 1.8 or 2.0's .- BOTTOM LINE.
There is one 75 1.8 T here in SA ( with Zimbabwe plates on)

[Jim K]

Take the simplest road: like I said, import a few used std 1.8T engines complete with wiring and take it from there. Just a chip change to 0.9-1bar will go to ~190-210hp right there; not bad for 30-50Euros.
Swap to Sierra rwd electronics and a front mounted intercooler and you're up to 250-300hp with ~1.5-1.8bar.
We have guys here running up to 2.8-3bar with stock internals...these engines are really tough!
I will hopefully have a complete detailed recipe myself when I get mine done; looking for ~250-280hp, 100% streetable of course. I really think you've regrettably missed out a lot not playing with this engine, concentrating instead on the big-cubes.
There's good reason these engines are almost unknown; due to factory policy they never made it to NA, Australia, UK and many other countries where a lot of people modify cars as a serious hobby. I bet if they were presented to the same markets as the V6, we'd have a totally different picture today!
Anyway..wrong thread for all this!

[Mats]

First half of September I might be able to post videos and logs from a car with a car with a 75 T engine with stock internals but modified injection system and such.
I'm told it's seriously quick.

[Jim K]

That would be good!
Mats has seen enough fast 1.8T's as well, so question: can you compare a 3liter with a 1.8T with the same power, suspension and gearbox in the 'Ring? The 4cyl will be a lot quicker and not just because it lacks understeer...! It will be inching away at every corner exit and every uphill climb!
The hell with the thread...

[Zamani]

If both cars have 200 bhp. Most likely it will look something like:

3.0: 200 bhp @ 6500 rpm and 185 lb/ft @ 5000 rpm.
1.8T: 200 bhp at 6000 rpm and 200 lb/ft at 2500 rpm.

[Jim K]

Here are some real numbers for a 'chipped' 1.8T with the addition of a very mild intake cam at 1.45bar (21psi):
202 wheel hp @ 5210rpm and 250lbft @ 4000rpm
Total cost was ~400Euros and 4hrs work to install the chip and the cam...talk about cost-effective! And this is with no drawbacks anywhere!
Engine power figures were 228hp @ 5210rpm and 269lbft @4000rpm
If anyone is curious I can scan and post the graph.
If all this really sinks in and you do the math, I can see me shipping 1.8T parts to you guys!
Jim K.

[Greg Gordon]

Having driven both a forced induction 2.0 Milano (supercharged .61bar/9spi) and a souped up but normally aspirated 3.0 Milano (S, Pistons, S Cams, Zat Box, Headers) side by side, I can assure you there is no comparison in performance. Even with low boost and peak horsepower about the same, the 2.0 car runs away from the 3.0 car in any sort of straight line contest due to its lighter weight and superior low and mid range torque. I have a video on youtube somewhere showing this.

In overall performance, it's even more lopsided. The 4cyl car is better balanced and the overall weight reduction pays big dividends in handling and braking. As a bonus, it's also a lot easier to work on!

All that said, for some reason I still prefer the V6. Nobody said Alfa ownership has to be logical.

Greg Gordon,
www.hiperformancestore.com

[fedezyl]

Interesting, makes me wonder if I should have taken the TS route a while ago...been offered quite a bit of TS engines in the past....but i'll guess mine will be the only V6 Giulie in the country..

[Zamani]

Then you can do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcDrUg0FfJw

I think this is in JK's neighborhood.

[Jim K]

Yeah, I know the guy. He has a huge turbo with a special long-branch manifold in there -the snail is positioned in front of the engine just behind the rad, has CSC management, stock internals (no $hit!) and makes anywhere from 480-550hp at up to...3bar (44psi). Tried for 3.5bar and that's when a liner split! He has a constant problem breaking donuts...and I'm sure he'll never forget the one time when the driveshaft paid him a visit...
Jim K.

[kevin]

We seriously got left out. My one and only question is what reliability was there with headgaskets on the 1.8t. What did they use.?