ALFAGTV6.COM

[MerrilGordon]

I think the S2000 is the right idea. I was thinking of something like Ducati HyperMotards or Monsters with paniers (ok, a Multistrada but better looking).
The Honda and the Ducatis are minimalist applications that would do Alfa well.
I don't want to see tarted up Fiat's with Alfa badges and uncompetive price tags.
A heavy white 4-door with an automatic will simply be lost in a sea of sameness.
It will take what we've been describing to generate passion for new Alfas.

Merril

[Duk]

Alfa must start from scratch! No hangovers from their old frontwheel drive chassis allowed.
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_110770/article.html, manufacturing process's are becoming much more innovative if the manufacturer has guts to start fresh.
Yes there are design and development costs. Yes there is retooling costs, but the long term benefit of this for any car manufacture is much better end cars.
Imagine the reaction of the automotive world if Alfa were to release a sub 1000kg drivers car for 2/3 the cost (or less) of a Honda S2000.
A real Alfa, not a rebadged refrigerator, not a rebodied car, a real Alfa!
Less is more. No pandering to the whim of soft posers who want to be seen in this or that brand or this or that type of car.
Low dollar, high fun, reliable machine that when you travel any decent distance you want to take the long way just so you can spend more time in it (and 'cause the long way is more fun anyway).

[MR2 Zig]

It seems that manufacturers bring out a good small car and then grow the thing into grossness...dodge neon for example, was a spunky little econo car that has grown into this midsize gutless thing. The older bmw 325 (90's?) nice little car that's grown just a bit.

i want a small simple (no cup holders, manual windows) SPORTS CAR that doesn't look like a blob of poo on the road.

I test drove the rx8 and it was fast, handled well, very forgiving, too big, and looks like a blob of poo. I like the rotary and the gearbox seemed pretty good.

Sat in but didn't drive the 350z. comfortable enough, but looks like a runny blob of poo.

Wife's car is a mini cooper s with factory installed john cooper works kit (extra $6k at my insistance, 210hp, bigger brakes, limited slip diff) almost bloby, pretty quick, electric everything....i dread the day it goes off warranty.

mgb's are almost crude (i have a 67 mgb gt that could be yours...), but are simple and light.

There isn't a porsche that isn't overengineered (or overgrown now). I think the 911's up to the early 80s are ok though.

The GTV6 just drives right, even with a bad gearbox (i'm working on that). I would like to see if I can put the Alfetta doors on mine though....manual windows you know.

Alfa can do something with its image if it wants to be daring in the marketplace....that willingness to be different so long ago is what made the company in the firstplace.

No one is willing to buck the bean counters anymore, so car design has become whatever will sell in the biggest market segment (plain 4 door sedans). Add to that the politicians and their desire to control what you can get....blah yucko.

I'll go away now,

MR1 Zig

[SimonB]

Remember that the GTV6 cost more to build than they sold it for!

[MerrilGordon]

Simon, I've heard that too. And indication that Alfa's production/manufacturing processes was quite ineficient. Remember too that the GTV6 was an expensive car in it's day.
I also remember Porsche was beginning to have similar problems and brought over Japenese experts to help them out. I'm thinking that was in the mid 90's or so.
I believe efficient manufacturing processes are pretty much common knowlege these days. Alfa (Fiat) should be able to get a pretty good handle on it now.

Merril

[fastcar]

... Alfa needs to be an italian BMW - but cheaper please!

It's a shame that now we are BMW-wannabes. There was a time when the others just dreamed about the technologies what Alfa already used on their production cars. But at the beginning of the 70s something has changed... and not in the good direction.
Our beloved GTV6 was still a technical pin-up, but the rest of the product line went down as well the used materials and quality.
The BMW only started to raise at that period. Could it be an icon for us? I don't think so.

I think Alfa should be as follows:

- technical supremacy over the others as it was for many decades ( high revving, twin cam engines in series from the late 20s, alloy engines from the 50s - the Audi's first alloy engine was the '89 V8 -, variable timing, and we can follow the list for long)
- real light weight versions at the top of the lines as it was at the GTA time
- precise and sporty suspensions
- models which are not just Fiats from the long production line with Alfa Romeo badge on the front and at the rear
- and yes, rear wheel drive for the sportier models, like the coupés and spiders/roadsters

[Mats]

So there are cars like that already, they are badged "Ferrari".

Honestly, there are no way in hell you can make a small series, cheap car with all the "supreme technology" that doesn't share anything with any other car. Why do you think this doesn't alreday exist if it was possible?

[MR2 Zig]

Just build a simple, quick , good handling, relatively light car.

IIRC the GTV6 wasn't the fastest thing out there when it was new....it was (still is) fun to drive, handled well, quick, relatively light.

You could buy a super car like a Ferrari, buy a porsche and fight the tail happyness etc....or buy the Alfa. It was built pretty well, went well and didn't cost the moon. Was it expensive....yes, but there were worse cars for more money and few better ones for less.

I'd think shooting for somewhere a step back from the best of the best (with the attendant big $$) and better than middle of the pack would work.

[Zamani]

If Alfa would just fix the weight issue they wouldn't have to spend so much time tweaking the suspension and engine for more power.

[MR2 Zig]

I just saw an ad for what looks like an updated GTV6....the hundai genisis coupe with 3.8l 24v v6 and a claimed 306hp weighs 3400lbs

If they can do it why can't Alfa?





Z,
I think that the weight of cars is going up for at least 2 reasons. 1. crashworthiness standards. 2. pure size...seems every car is bigger now, even the small ones

[MD]

...every car is bigger now, even the small ones

That's cause all the lardarses have upsized

[MR2 Zig]

That's cause all the lardarses have upsized

Hey, I resemble that remark

[MD]

Well there you go Ziggy and all this time I believed my mechanic who kept telling me that all Alfa owners were tight arses-worse than VW owners who expected a car to go for 20 years without repairs..

[MR2 Zig]

But but ...


I squeek


i do my own work


i even make my own parts sometimes


even my wife says i'm cheap

[GTV27]

Got stuck in traffic yesterday on the M3 (thinks..is it called the M3 because 3 is the average speed?) and was beside a 159 for a while, which made me think of this thread.

I could buy a 159 for my next driving to work type car, but haven't even remotely considered it. Why is that? I've been in to Alfas since forever, have owned 5 over the last 15 odd years, but have no interest in buying their latest and greatest product. Its a thing of great beauty, but I don't want it.

Things that are wrong:
- FWD
- too big and heavy for its engine (its almost as big as my current car (Ford Fairmont ) and that has a 4 litre 6 cylinder engine)
- too complex/high potential for unreliability (ask a 156 owner about selespeed...)

Things to fix:
- RWD
- less weight or bigger engine (both)
- KISS

My ideal:
I'd like a 75 sized car (ie about the same interior size as a Focus/Golf).
I'd like it to be a hatch/sportsback, but a sedan would be OK too.
A 3 litre 6 cylinder engine (min 200kw, 300nm) would be good, but a 2 litre 4 cylinder turbo would be OK too.
It should weigh no more than 1300kg (and that's being generous, less would be better).
I'd like a 6 speed auto with flappy paddles - maybe put the box at the back for good weight distribution.
RWD (obviously), but AWD would be good too, if it had a RWD bias.

The closest I can currently get to this spec is a Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart Sportback (or maybe a Subaru Impreza WRX, if it didn't look so bland ). And they sell these for less than a basic 159...?

Why doesn't Alfa build something like these? Its place in the motoring world has changed and other brands now take the place for the 'sporting enthusiast'. Alfa is now like SAAB or Rover or ...some other discount prestige brand that when push comes to shove, could easily die. Are people going to be restoring and modifying the current Alfa line up in 30 years time (as we do the 80's models now)?
Does Alfa (or Fiat) care one way or the other?