JK 24v 3liter ..at last!

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la_strega_nera
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Re: JK 24v 3liter ..at last!

Post by la_strega_nera »

kens wrote:
JimGreek wrote:...is it still 60-2?
Jim K.
Yes, the late Busso engines which run the crank angle sensor against the flywheel have the same 60-2 tooth arrangement.

I am running a 2002 engine with a 164 crank pulley and 164 front sump cover. The 164 24V front sump cover does not bolt to the pan correctly, yet, does not leak. I have an aluminum flywheel and chose to not add flywheel teeth. So, I made the newer engine run the 164 crank angle sensor setup.

Ken
Any idea what year they changed over? where's the pickup mounted for the flywheel sensor version?
1966 GTV
1982 Suzuki "Bathurst" Katana
1995 Cagiva Mito (race kitted 250 powered)

kens
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Re: JK 24v 3liter ..at last!

Post by kens »

Zamani wrote:Ken,
What about your oil pump setup, did you use the late model chain type of 164 type?
The chain drive on the 2002 engine was utilized. The pan was pulled just to change the front sump cover that mounts the crank sensor.

I had Brown Miller provide two stainless tubes with 90 degree bends to route the coolant back toward the front of the engine.
la_strega_nera wrote: Any idea what year they changed over? where's the pickup mounted for the flywheel sensor version?
Personally, I first see the flywheel pickup in 2000. However, I suspect it goes back to 1997 after the last 164 was produced. Someone mentioned it on the Kappa which was a 1997 release. The sensor mounts onto the oilpan or block next to flywheel.

The photo is a 2002 Lancia Thesis automatic flywheel.
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la_strega_nera
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Re: JK 24v 3liter ..at last!

Post by la_strega_nera »

Hmmm... that may be annoying.
will have to check what my 98 GTV v6 motor has.
1966 GTV
1982 Suzuki "Bathurst" Katana
1995 Cagiva Mito (race kitted 250 powered)

la_strega_nera
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Re: JK 24v 3liter ..at last!

Post by la_strega_nera »

Ah FFS. rear mounted CAS on my 98 motor.

However - looks like it might simply be a case of putting on the right pulley, mounting the CAS bracket from a 12valve motronic motor to the front cover, and bobs your uncle.
1966 GTV
1982 Suzuki "Bathurst" Katana
1995 Cagiva Mito (race kitted 250 powered)

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Michael
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Re: JK 24v 3liter ..at last!

Post by Michael »

Hi Jim:

Are you still happy with the RWD plenum you used in your conversion?
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I'm keen to use this approach too since it will solve a few of my remaining issues.
Michael
1981 GTV6

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Re: JK 24v 3liter ..at last!

Post by Jim K »

All right, here is an overdue update with interesting news!
The engine completed ~700km in my mechanic's car and ....I only drove the car once. Can you believe that? I didn't want to drive it before mapping...Just my peculiarity (or perversity) I suppose. The car felt good right off the line until ~7k. Some unexplained vibration though somewhere underneath....Finally, when the guys took it out one day for another test drive (=joyride) they were barrelling uphill at about 180kph and ..boom! Fortunately the driver pressed the clutch and coasted to a stop. I went and towed them back to the shop with my trusty old Hyundai. Lo and behold...the driveshaft broke ~2"after the splined yoke. The tunnel suffered some minor cuts but the owner was pissed off and scrapped the (now stripped) body last week. The motor is fine (thank God) and we lifted the car up to see what and why happened. I immediately saw the yoke was NOT parallel to the flywheel! Later on, with the engine out, I removed the splines and found that the front driveshaft cup (the part fitting nto the flywheel) was broken. These pieces somehow climbed over themselves and pushed the driveshaft ball (foremost edge of shaft) sideways. In my opinion, this constant sideload is what caused the shaft to break from fatigue. The rubber donut was even slightly deformed, indicating pressure to one side.
The engine is now on the ground, waiting to go into my 1.8T. Vacations are over so work will now resume. I expect to be driving around in it this month.

Michael, there was nothing to indicate using this plenum was wrong. The only possible improvement I would consider, would be to increase volume by cutting/welding to create a wider plenum keeping the same looks. I have no concrete reason to do this but it probably falls under the 'can't hurt' category.
Jim K.

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Re: JK 24v 3liter ..at last!

Post by la_strega_nera »

Bugger, sounds like that 75 was cursed! Any power runs?
1966 GTV
1982 Suzuki "Bathurst" Katana
1995 Cagiva Mito (race kitted 250 powered)

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Re: JK 24v 3liter ..at last!

Post by 75evo »

Ok, maybe those splined shaft is more desireable for some due to "ease of fit". But now I think the fixed alfetta, early 75v6 style is a little safer.

Btw, Jim, do you think properly aligning the shaft, engine and gearbox together would reduce the risk of the shaft blowing up?

Also im strongly thinking of welding another layer of sheet metal in the tunnel to stop the shaft from poking my leg.

Have you also found your GTA crank yet? How does the 24v compare to your hyper ex-12v?

If the euro crashes, im going to start ordering parts again . The Aussie dollar has been bouncing so hard, like a roo. I remebered the days when I bulk orderd from Beninca a bunch of Autronics, the Aussie dollar was 1/2 the USD.

Zamani

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Re: JK 24v 3liter ..at last!

Post by GarthW »

Oh yes how the tables have turned, i've been online shopping like a steak wife whore with 20 husbands.

Our dollar was nearly $1.10US. :D
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Selling 1985 GTV6.

Ecu and injectors, lightened.....plays music.

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Re: JK 24v 3liter ..at last!

Post by Jim K »

I do believe proper engine/driveshaft alignment is necessary. I'm even thinking of checking everything out with one of those small laser pointers; fix it inside the flywheel hole and nudge the engine around until it points to the center of the middle mount. Engine adjustment (left/right) can be achieved with larger holes in the motor mounts (where they bolt to the chassis) and up/down with washers under the rear (bellhousing) mount.
Excellent idea to strengthen the tunnel...you never know! Sure beats wearing steel pants :lol:
I can get GTA cranks here for ~500-600€.
I haven't found a reason why they used the splined arrangement in the 3liters. I'm almost tempted to use the std Turbo driveshaft. I'll have to see if the length is correct, first.

12 vs 24v...This 12v hauls a$$. With 236hp it moves really fast, notwithstanding its 1400kg! It is definitely better all-around than the 24v but wait: I'm not being fair, as the 24v hasn't been mapped yet (and I do expect ~260+). The 12v went into mapping with less than 200hp...I would love for this to reoccur with the 24v!

Ben, the mishap happened a week before the dyno/mapping appointment. I'll have to reschedule when I'm sure everything is bulletproof - by beating the crap out of the new engine/car combination :twisted:
Jim K.

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Re: JK 24v 3liter ..at last!

Post by GarthW »

Hey Jim, are those HP figures at the wheels?
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Ecu and injectors, lightened.....plays music.

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Re: JK 24v 3liter ..at last!

Post by Jim K »

I wish! That's engine power.
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Re: JK 24v 3liter ..at last!

Post by 75evo »

JK,

We all know how conservative you are, and dyno on a conservative dyno too.

As a matter of fact, I saw a video of a Linder built M3 2.3, and he zoomed into the dyno screen, P-wheel 231+ hp, P-engine 293 bhp!!!! The gearbox must get pretty damn hot then. Just an anecdotal point.

On the track the car sounded good, but then you see a GTV6 24V, flying by on the straights. :mrgreen:

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Re: JK 24v 3liter ..at last!

Post by Jim K »

Hah, I know how it is! I once went to map the 3liter (3 engines ago) and they removed the rear wheels and put those transducers on (like Rototest). Well, before mapping , the guy said I had 224hp and 235hp after mapping -a gain of 11hp. Man, was I happy! So thats what 235hp felt like on the road! Couple of days later, I went to the dyno I use ever since and got ...205hp. :roll:
Case in point, today, I took the 3liter car (the 12v I just sold) and pitted against a 155 with a chipped 2.0V6TB claiming to have ~250hp....We're still laughing at the guy; boy was he embarassed, even wanted to bet money up front! Most of them turbo kids think they got the world by the cashews :lol:
Jim K.

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Re: JK 24v 3liter ..at last!

Post by Mats »

Regarding propshaft vs. legs/feet I'd look into the drag racing rulebook, there are a lot better ways to contain a propshaft then adding another layer of sheet metal. A steel ring for instance.
Mats Strandberg
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GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
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