ALFAGTV6.COM

If you only want torque put in a modern turbodiesel then?! What about the feeling and the sound of a Busso V6 at full revs!

GarthW wrote:Supercharge it. Why havent you considered turbocharging?

N/A wont give you 450nm. You will have great HP, but torque is what moves the car.

At least with boost, and a good ecu, it will give you better fuel economy, with greater HP. I used to love the revs also, but once you have that torque and pull, you soon forget about revs, and in this day and age, where you going to rev it out to?

The 2.5 is very strong, 15psi is nothing.

If your all wondering why i havent posted anything, no updates, etc, i've had a massive hiatus, i nearly died 8 months ago, well i actually did, a shot of adrenaline saw that i didnt, after that experience, i didnt even look at my car. Just now i'm starting to walk into the garage and wanting to drive it again, but i'm also considering selling it. I invested alot of money into it the last 2 years, but after what happened to me, i just feel different, but will know i'll regret it if i do. But life goes on...

So basically in this day and age, i wouldnt bother going N/A, just boost it.

Man that sucks, it's good to have you around still! what happened?

Thanks very much Feds...

I still have flash backs daily from it, to start writing about it will just make me cry mate.

Lets just say, i've recovered. No need to post anymore bad news here...

Cheers mate.

GarthW wrote:Supercharge it. Why havent you considered turbocharging?

N/A wont give you 450nm. You will have great HP, but torque is what moves the car.

At least with boost, and a good ecu, it will give you better fuel economy, with greater HP. I used to love the revs also, but once you have that torque and pull, you soon forget about revs, and in this day and age, where you going to rev it out to?

The 2.5 is very strong, 15psi is nothing.

If your all wondering why i havent posted anything, no updates, etc, i've had a massive hiatus, i nearly died 8 months ago, well i actually did, a shot of adrenaline saw that i didnt, after that experience, i didnt even look at my car. Just now i'm starting to walk into the garage and wanting to drive it again, but i'm also considering selling it. I invested alot of money into it the last 2 years, but after what happened to me, i just feel different, but will know i'll regret it if i do. But life goes on...

So basically in this day and age, i wouldnt bother going N/A, just boost it.

Garth, I am glad you are still with us. It's probably obvious I agree boost is the way to go.

Greg

Greg Gordon's work has forever ruined the classic way of improving Alfa engines, which was by attention to detail, careful porting, expensive aftermarket parts and other time-proven techniques. His supercharger kits have taken all the magic out of 'the way it used to be' Any Tom, Dick and Harry can now have gobs of power out of a std engine by just bolting on his SC kits! Damn! I wish I'd known this when I bought my first 3liter back in '96!
Today, if I had to do a performance upgrade on a V6, I would build a bulletproof bottom end with forged pistons, clean up the ports and then bolt on the sc kit. Pity I'll never get to drive a car like that! I'll have to settle instead for my mild 24v 3liter and the hot 3.2 24v still on the planning stage and temporarily on hold due to our well-known financial predicament (I'm leaving the 1.8T's out of this discussion -being 4cyls).
It would be interesting to compare the cost of two engines of similar output power, one with SC and one without. Anyone done the math?
Jim K.

JimGreek wrote:Greg Gordon's work has forever ruined the classic way of improving Alfa engines, which was by attention to detail, careful porting, expensive aftermarket parts and other time-proven techniques. His supercharger kits have taken all the magic out of 'the way it used to be' Any Tom, Dick and Harry can now have gobs of power out of a std engine by just bolting on his SC kits! Damn! I wish I'd known this when I bought my first 3liter back in '96!
Today, if I had to do a performance upgrade on a V6, I would build a bulletproof bottom end with forged pistons, clean up the ports and then bolt on the sc kit. Pity I'll never get to drive a car like that! I'll have to settle instead for my mild 24v 3liter and the hot 3.2 24v still on the planning stage and temporarily on hold due to our well-known financial predicament (I'm leaving the 1.8T's out of this discussion -being 4cyls).
It would be interesting to compare the cost of two engines of similar output power, one with SC and one without. Anyone done the math?
Jim K.

No, but really, doing the math, I think the SC car wins once you start accounting for man hours in the build...

JimGreek wrote:Greg Gordon's work has forever ruined the classic way of improving Alfa engines, which was by attention to detail, careful porting, expensive aftermarket parts and other time-proven techniques. His supercharger kits have taken all the magic out of 'the way it used to be' Any Tom, Dick and Harry can now have gobs of power out of a std engine by just bolting on his SC kits! Damn! I wish I'd known this when I bought my first 3liter back in '96!
Today, if I had to do a performance upgrade on a V6, I would build a bulletproof bottom end with forged pistons, clean up the ports and then bolt on the sc kit. Pity I'll never get to drive a car like that! I'll have to settle instead for my mild 24v 3liter and the hot 3.2 24v still on the planning stage and temporarily on hold due to our well-known financial predicament (I'm leaving the 1.8T's out of this discussion -being 4cyls).
It would be interesting to compare the cost of two engines of similar output power, one with SC and one without. Anyone done the math?
Jim K.

I'd guess that it really comes down to each case and the bill payers abilities and facilities.
If you have an engine with ruined cam lobes and followers, then you you're up for new camshafts and followers. So how much extra would it cost to have the cams welded and reground with more performance in mind versus buying good replacements or brand new (if you can)?
If the owner can follow your porting dimensions and has the equipment to do it. Another win.

Ultimately though, it's unreasonable to expect a normally aspirated engine to compete with a force fed engine. Even if a modified NA engine managed to have the same peak power, the force fed engines higher average torque number will make it the faster weapon, especially on the road where you won't be wringing the engines neck to drive to the shops to get milk. Maybe

The great thing about boost is there is simply no need to replace the cams, for the turbo/charger is making all the power, well actually in regards to supercharging that may not be the case..

In this day and age with amazing ecu's and dyno tuning, i wouldnt waste my time with an N/A setup.

The 2.5 is such an amazing engine...it really is. Under boost its simply electric.

After blowing a large amount of cash on an N/A setup, thats it, no more scope for power unless you increase capacity.

But with boost...damn the worlds your oyster..

Is there no one exept me that lowe the wail of the six at full revs and the super direct reponse when you move the gaspedal just a tiny bit, instead of the rubberband steam engine feel of a blown engine?

Its more a bang for your buck kind of thing. And of course, each to their own.

I had my engine standard for over 8 years, and i loved it for sure. But you guys havent heard my car when it screams up high, its actually enhanced the note a lot.. I havent heard any other boosted alfa gtv6 that sounds like mine. But then no one has a manifold set up like mine.

Jules have you seen the Spruell 2.9 piston set? Uses 3.0 liners with a 2mm overbore and ends up with a 10.5:1CR with standard heads. I guess you could mill the heads for more.

Scott

GarthW wrote: But you guys havent heard my car when it screams up high, its actually enhanced the note a lot.. I havent heard any other boosted alfa gtv6 that sounds like mine. But then no one has a manifold set up like mine.

Garth, just from the videos you've posted your car is 1 of the best sounding turbo'd engines I've heard .

Just for sh!ts and giggles I'm slowly adding a Centrifugal Vortech V5 F trim supercharger to my 3 litre 75. Definitively the poorest force feeding choice in terms of average boost (and so average torque), but I wanted extra grunt without the heat retention in the engine bay of a turbo. The 3 litre has respectable torque and the Potenziata's use a lower diff ratio than the '89 and earlier 3 litres, so I think it will work well. It is also in excellent condition and cost bugger all to buy and I should have my little personal challenge of force fed Alfa with the major components of water to air intercooler, water injection and full programmable engine management system for $2500Aus (all work being done by me).

Duk , more pics pleeeeease

kevin wrote:Duk , more pics pleeeeease

Sorry Kevin, not much has happened since that photo and the crank pulley and the lower part of the passenger side of my CSC style extractors (but with goilet collectors). The project has been put aside for a while so I can get other stuff done.

Thanks very much Duk. When i get around to it, and my mojo back, i'll have a really nice video up.

A charged 3.0 will be awesome...looking forward to the eventual build mate.