Jim K. 3.2 engine

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75evo
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by 75evo »

Sabertooth in Singapore said he got 300bhp with your cams and other mods. He even mentioned that he used the 7x mm throttle from the big 8x one and improved power. Not sure why some folks go with the maser or F360 8x mm throttle for a small engine.

. I'm going to check on my 156 3.0 which is having JK's 10mm cams fitted now. Should be done today.

Signing off from Asia's Greece.

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75evo
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by 75evo »

OK I think I need to re-map the ECU, obviously, but I don't have access. I think Jano (UK Autodelta) lives in neighboring Thailand some parts of the year and sometimes flies over here, so that is one option, but I got so much negatives from others that I may refrain from going to him.

Other choice is drive down to Singapore with a sack load of the banana currency and get Rom Singh to do it.

The idle is a little lumpy, but I think this can be solved by remapping the E-throttle to open a bit or the idle actuator open more, who knows.... that's the problem with Motronic when you don't have a skilled Bosch guy around, unlike in Europe.

Top end is definitely stronger than stocker or the GTA cams.

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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by Jim K »

Try idle rpm 900-950, but a proper job would mean also adjusting advance/fuelling. We do expect some dyno numbers after mapping!
Jim K.

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SydneyJules
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by SydneyJules »

Are your cams available to purchase?!

I'm looking forward to this 3.2 :D
Fixing it bit by bit....

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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

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What I do is regrind 'customer' cams and ship them. If I can find a used set here, I buy them and regrind those. If not, you have to send me your cams and I have them done. So far I have done 4-5 sets, the last waiting to ship when I get back home. All have the 10mm profile which has been tried with good results. The 10.3mm has not been tested and will first work in my car. My current 3liter 24v has a 9.7mm profile from the Renault Williams 2liter production car (from years past) and has worked great, making 272hp and revving all day to ~7700. However, the engine is upgraded and fully mapped. Up to now, I could find used non-gta cams for up to 220€ and regrinding/hardening/straightening is 420€ and then there's shipping which -because of weight- may go to 95-100€. Total cost is still way less than buying cams from anyone though. There was talk of a group buy in UK AlfaOwner but nothing yet. A quantity of 10 sets would drop regrind price by 20€ and I could probably arrange for a single freight shipment which would be much cheaper than the post-office.
As expectations go, judging from my 3liter, the 3.2 should exceed 300hp with the new profiles, this being something to find out within this year. I will only be satisfied if the engine has regular civilized idling under 1000rpm -the 3liter/Renault cams can idle perfectly at 850rpm -after remapping the std ecu.
Jim K.

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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by 75evo »

My be the ecu has some limited adapting ability LTFT and STFT BUT AFTER 2 days the cars performance above 4k rpm is sort of explosive. My mom has a 156 GTA and even though it is quick, the car feels a lil flat after 6k unlike JK's 10mm cams.

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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by SydneyJules »

Thanks Z, thanks Jim.

When the engine is in my possession I'll be in touch.... Sounds like what I want!
Fixing it bit by bit....

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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by Saabretooth »

Jim K wrote:Try idle rpm 900-950, but a proper job would mean also adjusting advance/fuelling. We do expect some dyno numbers after mapping!
Jim K.

Cold starts in the mornings are at about 1000-1100 rpm for about 10-30 sec..... before settling to 800-850. then I drive off.



Once the engine is warm, my 3.2 is idling at 750rpm, albeit with the regular "irregular" race cam idle.

I'm using the 78mm TB instead of the huge 84mm one from the F430.

Skipped the 76mm one from the F360, since almost everyone's tried that route before, for doing the enlarged TB gig.

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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by Jim K »

End of vacation, back home and time to face the lump again! Did some work over the last two days; tightened the head nuts for the 3rd time and finally some stayed put, others showed very little change. Before the work, I marked the nuts with a dab of white-out as a reference. I think one more time next week will be the last.
Next, I put the dial indicators to good use and with the help of the degreed crank pulley I set 'zero' at 110* lobe centers for in/ex. It seems this setting is what the factory uses, as there is coincidence with the marks scribed on the rear end of the cams. Catcams says 109* in their site but that's close enough. I may experiment with up to ±4* from this setting when all done with break-in, mapping, etc.
Tomorrow I'll relocate the oil filler neck a few inches away near the upper corner of the valve cover, to clear the brake servo.
The most important step I left for last: a plenum like the one in Kevin's recent pic; I hope it will look as good! :roll: It will take some drawings, dimensions, and a trip to the water-jet guys for a start.
We have come to the point where I can put oil in the sump and run the oil-pump shaft with a power drill until the circuit is full. I have rigged up a mechanical oil pressure gauge with a short nylon tube to fit in the stock port. The main purpose is to fill the hydraulic followers completely, so there won't be any clattering on first start up, clatter being bad for cams/followers. During oil pressurizing with the drill, a friend will be turning the crank until hopefully all followers are full. I can then have fun with something I thought last week: bolt on the flywheel, bellhousing, starter and use a battery to crank away for a few seconds! Why?...Why Not? 8) Stay tuned!
Jim K.
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maxiboy
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by maxiboy »

thanks Jim K love your updates glad your getting it sorted..

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MD
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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by MD »

This is going to hurt me more than it should....
Nice work JK

...I knew it. The pain has started already. Where's my analgesics !! ?? Anybody out there with a Codeine pill?
Transaxle Alfas Haul More Arse

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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by Jim K »

Take your mind off the subject MD... Try something to exercise your mind, like counting to 20 without taking your socks off!
If that proves difficult, try to remember why you must always open the toilet lid! :mrgreen: :wall:
Jim K.

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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by Jim K »

Subject: Throttle body size. After a quick web and book search, I did not see any numbers over 65mm specified for the 3.2 engine up to 7500rpm and 74mm for a race engine, which is NOT what I am building. Do any of you guys have throttle body size proven comparison data? I am asking as I am trying to be cheap and use the std body if I can get away with it. If someone says 'the std one makes xxxhp and 5mm bigger adds 10hp' I'll think about bigger.
Jim K.

PS: Here's a nice site: http://www.hipermath.com/math_center/ra ... lculations

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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by maxiboy »

loads of people go bigger than that.. 78mm 84mm but i,m with you that throttle response and airflow will suffer with something that size..

I was going to run something around 70mm and thats on a 3.8 lump..

or split the banks and run smaller twins in my mapper thought he could do the required tuning..

I really dont think there is massive gains to be had by fitting larger throttle bodys on the standard or the ACT inlet but would love to be proved wrong.

Also i think the standard inlet manifold neck will only run out to about 70mm diameter so cant see them adding much in the ways of gains after that..

Ferrari 360 was a favourite and i think Maserati also run with a 76mm item.. but think there might slow the throttle response and idle worse

yet to do any testing as still awaiting rods and crank from machine shop..

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Re: Jim K. 3.2 engine

Post by Jim K »

Ok then, after some deliberation with you guys its settled... Going one ...going twice...sold to the cheap bastard from Greece! Std throttle body it will be.
Spent yesterday evening cutting up the std fwd plenum. Used an angle grinder with a cutting disc, no way to do the job with a hacksaw. Had to stop when the neighbors sitting with friends outside the house finally got pissed off at around 10:30pm... Hmmm, maybe because of the noise? :twisted: A beautiful Saturday night with your friends over for a chat and some prick 30ft away grinding sheet metal... :mrgreen: :wall:
I will post pics as I go. Next step now is to mock-fit the cut piece on the engine and build the additional part of the box with cardboard, securing it on the plenum with masking tape until I come up with an acceptable shape. It must have adequate room underneath for the coils and hold the throttle body at a proper angle. I may try doing some of it today.
Jim K.

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