allalfa
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Post by allalfa »

Xrad, I will attempt the installation this weekend. It does not look like I have a bracket to hold the optical sensor that looks like yours. I have three or four in the kit, but they look different. I will follow the advice with the replacement of the fasteners with better ones. Also, I wish I had time to get a machine shop to copy the "flemsy" plastic wheel. :evil:
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Post by x-rad »

you sure you received the crane xr3000-0292..this is the sub-model that fits hall sensor


OR..as long as you have a six groove chopper wheel that fits correctly (with the little 'v' inner prong) you can probably make the bracket.

Look closely at my pic...the bracket is made of TWO parts..one adjusts horizontally and one vertically to cover all positions.

Long skinnt bolt and nut for mounting sensor to bracket
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Post by allalfa »

Xrad, I ordered the one from the link you provided on your initial post to this topic. I think it will work. The chopper wheels were four included in the kit. One looks identical to yours.
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Post by x-rad »

What's the word Allalfa??
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Post by allalfa »

Wheeei, I am thinking these guys have not sent me the right parts! I got my camera coming in the mail, (was left on a plane to Italy), I would like to take pics of the brackets they gave me to show you. I do not have the adjusting bracket which I am thinking is critical to adjust the optical pointing correctly. Also, I am not sure how you got the chopper wheel secured on the shaft, the groves on the one I have got do not seem to match up to the ones on the shaft. I have three dizzys, so, I am trying the installation on the oldest as a dummy, that way I can install correctly on the new one when I am ready. Not all may be lost though, I am going to call them Tuesday to see if they can manage to send me the right brackets. Also, there is a bracket in the kit that seem as if it would probably work, but it is a long shot. Did you drill out those weird rivets to remove the old pickup? (i am guessing definitely yes). So to confirm, you also tapped the new pickup so the (machine screw selected by you) could enter, and secured it with Locktite. Did you use the round donut spacers anywhere? What about that brass pin? (once again I am guessing generic parts to utilize on various applications). Thanks,
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Post by x-rad »

Allalfa:

First of all, make sure you have the right kit...ends in -0292. Should be for bosch hall type dizzy late 70's-early 80's. it came with 4-5 chopper wheels and a bunch of screws and brackets.

Look closely at my picture to see how they go together..takes a little work. I did not drill any holes, just tapped one for the mount to the carrier plate (the thing holding the old blue magnetic sensor)

Take the little 'z'bent piece(looks kinda like a 'Z' from the side) and mount it to the carrier with a new hardened screw (does not come with the pack). Use one of the small screws and nuts to mount the lateral adjustor piece to the "z" piece.

Then mount the led holder to the bracket..but keep the last two screws loose.

Use the chopper wheel that fits the shaft frimly AND has a little "V" shaped inner protrusion. This meets with the groove in the dizzy shaft. I believe there was a thin washer below and I reused the retaining clip on top.

Don't forget to run the three wires out of the little hole on the side of the dizzy.

If you don't have the right wheel and bracket, it won't work and you have to call Crane for the right stuff...
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allalfa
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Post by allalfa »

X-Rad,
wrong kit, this is 3000-0226, it is missing a bunch of stuff, fortunately enough I am no longer young enough to cut and paste without thinking, I took my time and did not mess any of it up, I still have the box and the shipping box. I will call FL on Tuesday and see if they can forward the correct kit or a new ignition, I can ship them back the wrong one. From what I understand this thing is a joke to install (if you have taken down your fair amount of ignition components in the past. Figure 8 of page 4 of the manual (mounting foot pic) is exactly how you have yours installed. The chopper wheels in mine are the same as yours on the outside but different on the inside of the hole. The shaft grooves look like a machined (three-grove) indents times three around the circle. The Bosh one should simply be some simple ridges protruding out from the hole so that they could slide in the slots on the shaft. This kit cannot work on this distributor. I will get it exchanged. I was thinking also, if I get time (in the future) to get a wheel machined identically to the one required in aluminum. This should solve (our) flimsy mutual feelings if you understand what I mean.
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Post by x-rad »

Yeah.. i agree totally about the crappy wheel...

Crane should exhcange the kit for you without any problems.
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Post by allalfa »

X-rad, I got the replacement kit on Thursday...finally! Last night I installed the new dizzy guts, did you reuse the lower retaining ring? I just put it in and it rested on the sensor plate, then I put in the upper ring as you show in your picture. I do not believe that putting the lower snap ring back in place would have been beneficial. It seems as if it would have brought the black disk up too high. In the instructions they talk about aligning up the light with the "edge of the window" whatever that means, I am sure that you have to try to keep the optical sensor facing forward toward the center shaft as accurately as you can. Does it matter which position the transparent sensor is in respect to the black? Mine is on top and the black at the bottom.
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Post by x-rad »

Honestly I can't remeber if i used the lower snap ring...can't see it either. I think that I did not as I remember having one left over...

I used the thin washer and the crane timing plate sits on this..and then the snap ring goes on...everything fairly firmly in place (does not slide up and down the shaft at all..)

Aligning edge of plate window means that the leading edge of the spinning plate window (does not matter which one)should be just hitting the edge of the LED ..not the LED housing.

it does not matter which way the led housing goes...the center of the led emits the most 'light' and the sensor does not care which way it is pointed.

Mine is set this way for convenience because as the carrier plat turns, the wire needs some slack. I still have to pull back some of the wire covering as it is too stiff and may affect plate travel...

ALSO: found that there are adjustable vacuum advances for the plate , these are not standard Alfa but could probably be made to work in case you can't get enough advance .
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Post by allalfa »

Xrad, sorry if I seem soo confused, the car is at my old place and I have no choice but to setup the dizzy here and then go and finish the job elsewhere. So, I am still a bit confused with the window thing, is this what you mean? If not I am assuning that the sensor should be at arrow two before I crank the engine. Let me know if I am wrong please...
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Post by x-rad »

Allalfa: READ THIS

Now we are on the topic of the ALL IMPORTANT AND NOT EASILY UNDERSTOOD "rotor Phasing". This is also explained in the crane instructions.

Points to know by heart:

ALWAYS BEST to mark the dizzy and rotor relationships with a small mark before taking everythin apart! There is a tiny mark on the dizzy housing (little line seen in the picture above at the 8-9 o'clock position)that shows you exactly where the center of the rotor tip should be at top dead center and this is where you should start.

1) Dizzy housing can face any direction as long as the dizzy gear in the engine block is set appropriately. Make it easy and locate as I have it with the diaphram facing front.

2) dizzy cap only fits on the housing in one direction. This is so that when the 'rotor' is aligned correctly and the engine is at TDC #1 cylinder, the leading tip of the 'rotor' should be at the edge of the #1 cylinder 'pin' in the dizzy cap. This is so that when spark is transmitted, it goes from the center cap pin through the 'rotor' and arcs to the #1 cylinder cap pin....OTHERWISE who knows where the spark goes....Get an old cap and cut a small hole in the top so you can see the rotor as it matches up with the #1 cap pin at TDC. Replace this cap with a new one later.

You may have to lift and rotate the dizzy gear a tooth or two in the engine block a few times to get it right if this was removed during the last attempt...

Now you know you have phased the rotor and cap to TDC...BUT

3) You still have to phase the crane disc. This disc triggers the coil...if you don't trigger the coil at the right time IN SYNCHRONIZATION with the rotor and #1 cap pin....ignition will be off and engine won't run. It does not matter which crane disc hole, but use the one in closest alignment to to the LED to make life easier.

4) once you know where the rotor should be in relation to the cap, lock the dizzy cap, remove the rotor, and install the crane disc, .... and then adjust the mounting brackets for the LED mount so that #2 in you pic lines up with #1 LED edge. You should not have to adjust the mounting bracket too much to get everything ligned up. put the rotor back on and test it.

It is really pretty simple...just break down the steps
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Post by allalfa »

Xrad, before I removed the dizzy I set the engine to TDC mark number one, then I pulled the number one plug and made sure that the cylinder was on top , this is pretty much standard procedure I guess, I had alligned the cam and reinstalled the belt before I parked the car, (approximately 4 miles ago). I removed the rotor cap after, and as the instructions indicated on the crane cams manual, I used a flat head screwdriver and made a small notch lining up with the "center of the head" of the button. So, I have the engine set to TDC right on the money. So, as you said, after I place the rotor in, just tighten it, and place the disk so that the top LED can clearly stare at its opposite (through the window), then secure the setup. Will the LED light blink through the holes, thesolid part or constantly?I can adjust the timing once I reach operating temp, with o2 sensor and vacum advance disconnected. I have Zat's Pandora's box, I guess I will time accordingly.
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Post by allalfa »

I almost forgot, I am always careful when removing the dizzy (probably had it out close to 100 times :wink: , he gear did not move at all. Boy, do I wish I could convert this thing and use a crank pos sensor like the 164, it's just beautiful to never have to deal with too much alignments, however, it would not be fun anymore!
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Post by x-rad »

remember, piston #1 can be at the top on exhaust cycle so you have to check crank timing marks as well

I am glad you are careful removing dizzy

led is always on so that it can shine through the window at the appropriate time

you should only have to move the led housing a little in either arc direction. Keep it loose as you assemble the disc part and tighten up as needed while making sure enough disc is covering the LEDs and it is not touching anything
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