ALFAGTV6.COM

[P.Webb]

There's an L-Jet ECU on EBay listed here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... gory=33596

The auction doesn't say it's from a 3.0 but the other items from the car he's parting out are definitely Verde (QV).

Bid @ $55 right now.

Don't blame me, I'm just trying to help...

-Peter

[enzo]

all QV here in europe had motronic....in US not?

[P.Webb]

No transaxle cars had Motronic in the US. The Fiat 164 was the first in 1991 (ML4.1) and later 1991 the Spider (ML1.3).

Bosch is just German for Lucas

BTW, looking at the other parts, it might be a 2.5 ECU. Still, $55 isn't bad for a working box.

-Peter

[Seb]

FIAT 164????

S.

[P.Webb]

Alfa Romeo died with the 75.

[Seb]

Really!? So the 164 existed in the form of a FIAT? Thats interesting. (or not) Did it have FIAT engines too then?


Do You have a Picture of one, would be fun to see.

Seb

[P.Webb]

I meant that the 164 is a Fiat car even though it's badged an Alfa Romeo.

I'm just voicing my cynisism for the Fiat handling of Alfa Romeo after the purchase.

IMO, they lost the passion. The 75 is the last REAL Alfa that feels like an Alfa. The rest is Fiat mass-production. It might as well be a Ford Mondeo.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this. Fiat have fucked up Alfa Romeo beyond belief and my heart is heavy for the loss of one of the great marques in automotive history to accountants.

But that's just me.

-Peter

[Steve B.]

I meant that the 164 is a Fiat car even though it's badged an Alfa Romeo.

I'm just voicing my cynisism for the Fiat handling of Alfa Romeo after the purchase.

IMO, they lost the passion. The 75 is the last REAL Alfa that feels like an Alfa. The rest is Fiat mass-production. It might as well be a Ford Mondeo.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this. Fiat have fucked up Alfa Romeo beyond belief and my heart is heavy for the loss of one of the great marques in automotive history to accountants.

But that's just me.

-Peter

Peter, speaking as an accountant (well, a CFO) it wasn't the poor accountants fault! Alfa was losing tons of money and even the Italian government decided it could not afford to keep it. The responsiblity for dealing with unprofitabililty situations is not with the accountants, it is with top line management (the CEO). The poor accountants are only the bearers of the bad news on operating results.

Of course you remember that Ford was going to purchase Alfa from the Italian government, but then Italian politics took over and Fiat ended up as the winner. Maybe Ford would have done a better job than Fiat but they would have had the same pressures to make money. No one can afford to subsidize losses indefinitely.
Alfa's business model was not working and drastic changes were needed. Maybe the wrong changes were made (I can agree with that) but something drastic had to be done. Maybe the root of the problem was the ownership by the Italian government. Politics drove disastrous decisions like putting a new plant in Southern Italy in the 1970s.

Steve

[P.Webb]

Didn't mean to lay blame where it isn't deserved.

You're right, the Fiat management (or lack thereof) owns this one.

I typed in a long response earlier today but no one wants to hear me rabbit on about how Fiat sucks.

Alfa Romeo is dead. We'll never again see the likes of Jano, Sata or Fusi. And it's a damn shame!

-Peter

[Zamani]

IMHO, it was probably the 116/161/33/Alfasud which made Alfa go almost broke. Quality assurance was very poor compared to the (souless) Japanese cars. In any case still love my 75 I'd rather have a 156 GTA as a daily driver, but the 75 is a keeper for sure.

[Steve B.]

Didn't mean to lay blame where it isn't deserved.

You're right, the Fiat management (or lack thereof) owns this one.

I typed in a long response earlier today but no one wants to hear me rabbit on about how Fiat sucks.

Alfa Romeo is dead. We'll never again see the likes of Jano, Sata or Fusi. And it's a damn shame!

-Peter

Peter,

After re-reading my post, I realize I may have come across as overly defensive of accountants (after the recent accounting scandals, they certainly do not deserve much defense). I do not mean to disagree with the main thrust of your point, however, and that is that the Alfa Romeo that we all cherish died with the acquisition by Fiat. IMO, a true Alfa needs to be rear-wheel drive and light weight with unique performance, styling and personality. Out of frustation, I am trying to create the car that I would like Alfa to produce today by installing a 24-valve V6 and custom, close-ratio transaxle in my 1982 GTV-6. You may have seen the engine in progress at Besic's. Regards,

Steve

[4SFED4]

Alfa is everything I would want it to be today (except that they are fwd and NOT sold in the US)... they are more reliable, have that distinctive Italian design and are more powerful today than ever. I keep hoping the Ferrari/Maserati stores become Ferrari/Maserati and Alfa! (although I am not holding my breath)

-Brian

[P.Webb]

Didn't mean to lay blame where it isn't deserved.

You're right, the Fiat management (or lack thereof) owns this one.

I typed in a long response earlier today but no one wants to hear me rabbit on about how Fiat sucks.

Alfa Romeo is dead. We'll never again see the likes of Jano, Sata or Fusi. And it's a damn shame!

-Peter

Peter,

After re-reading my post, I realize I may have come across as overly defensive of accountants (after the recent accounting scandals, they certainly do not deserve much defense). I do not mean to disagree with the main thrust of your point, however, and that is that the Alfa Romeo that we all cherish died with the acquisition by Fiat. IMO, a true Alfa needs to be rear-wheel drive and light weight with unique performance, styling and personality. Out of frustation, I am trying to create the car that I would like Alfa to produce today by installing a 24-valve V6 and custom, close-ratio transaxle in my 1982 GTV-6. You may have seen the engine in progress at Besic's. Regards,

Steve

Steve,

You might recall we met at the swap meet 2 years ago. I had the black Milano with all the crazy engine management stuff on it. I took some pictures and notes on your TPS.

I have some ideas for your motor if you're interested. Specifically in the engine management side of things.

Ask Mike about how I did the custom intake on my 3.0 using the 164 throttles. Would really make that motor scream.

Hope to see it at BHF or RA this year, even though you'll be in my class. Should make for some interesting lap time comparisons.

-Peter

[P.Webb]

Alfa is everything I would want it to be today (except that they are fwd and NOT sold in the US)... they are more reliable, have that distinctive Italian design and are more powerful today than ever. I keep hoping the Ferrari/Maserati stores become Ferrari/Maserati and Alfa! (although I am not holding my breath)

-Brian

Except they're not Alfas. You could say the same thing about a Nissan 350z (except at least they're RWD). I wouldn't trade my trusty old Milano for one.

Reliability never has been a big thing for me. I accept that older Italian cars have "quirks". All part of the ownership experience.

There's something about driving an Alfa era Alfa that elightens the senses to driving. The Fiat era Alfas seem like just cars to me, not experiences. Though I've never driven one. I think the FWD alone would turn me off. But that's just me.

-Peter

[4SFED4]

Peter,

Oh... you mean ALFA era like in the twenties right? (grin)

-or-

Just when did they STOP being Alfas...? I seem to recall the same comments from 105/115 owners about those 116 cars.

Come on man... at least drive one before writting them off!

I would put an Autodelta 156 3.7 GTA in my garage anyday...

-Brian