ALFAGTV6.COM

[mmelton]

Last December I noticed Ethanol stickers on the gas pumps at my favorite gas station in my home town. I shut off (had pumped 3-5 gallons as I recall), finished filling up at another gas station, and haven't been back to the old one. Yesterday I had the same problem at my favorite station in my work city. Finished my fillup at the station across the street.

I'm paranoid of this Ethanol crap because the stuff ruins the engines on these older cars...I guess. At least, I've heard that. And, in fact, a life-long friend told me back in the 1970s that he destroyed the motor in his VW Scirocco using Ethanol. I have to admit, that in over 40 years I've rarely known my good friend to be right about anything, but it's common knowledge that gas laced with corn squeezin's is bad for motors. And it begins to look like the day is fast approaching when we won't be able to find pure gas.

My question is: Is Ethanol (which I know to be less efficient per gallon or pound than gasoline) really bad for our motors? Is this stuff gonna destroy our wonderful old V6s? If so, why? What does it do? Anybody out there really know?

And while I'm at it, can we really use mid-grade (89 octane) gas in these V6s? I've burned too many valves on my Spiders and my old BMW 2000CS to be cavalier about my gas quality and octane rating.

Thanks in advance for your input.

[sh0rtlife]

not knowing where you live i can realy say..but "most" if not all of the USA has been running eth mix in the fuel since befor 1992..with 10% in the winter and 20$ in the summer(i may have the #'s backwards)...ALL pumps are suposed to have the eth sticker but ive seen alot of stations without them over the years...but still they have it in em

[MR2 Zig]

Gas hasn't been "pure" since WW2. Most cars and trucks at the time had relatively low compression engines....around 7.5 to 1. Folks wanted more power, to get it compression had to be raised. To be able to run the higher compression ratios the octane of gas was raised by the addition of tetraethyl lead (end of "pure" gas, beginning of big horsepower) in the 1950's.

In the 70's it had been decided that the lead in gas was a "bad thing" , but the high compression engines were a "good thing" so unleaded gas was born. Unleaded gas is a rather vile concoction that among other things contains benzene and alcohol (ethanol is an alchol...just not the drinking kind). Benzene is a known cancer trigger and the amount in a gallon of "gas" isn't just a trace.

The alcohol in fuel eats up rubber parts faster than gas and varnishes more too, hence the detergent in all gasoline (in California at least). It also has more water in it because of the alcohol which if left to sit in a snow covered garage settles out and rusts up your tank.

They (State of California) say that the alcohol acts as an oxygenate and leans out the fuel mixture thereby getting better emissions out of older cars. Problem is that those same cars get worse milage so there appears (to me) to be no net gain in reducing emissions and I get to buy more gas than I would otherwise need to. Newer cars that already run really clean (because of fuel injection) just get worse milage than necessary because their injection systems adjust for the too lean condition.

Net result is forced obsolescense.....of course, what the bunny huggers really want, is for everyone to return to a pre-industrial society....horses and buggys.

Scott

[MR2 Zig]

I forgot to direct those interested to the writings of the late Gordon Jennings regarding fuel and his problems with "gas" nowadays.

Scott

[aussie muscle]

dont forget nascars dont run on petrol (they run on methanol).

When unleaded came out there was rumors that it would quickly destroy a vehicle not designed for it. it runs a little hotter, but basically it's ok, and you can add a supplement to your fuel if it get too hot.

Similar story with ethanol. oil companies don't want you to buy it (until they have market dominance). change your fuel filter more often and you'll have no problems.[/b]

[MALDI]

FYI:

1) ethanol IS the kind of alcohol you drink
2) gasoline has always had benzene in it even since ww2, refineries use it now to adjust octane rating

see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

for a nice write up on gasoline

[MR2 Zig]

It used to be not so much benzene....now its about half the gallon.

[MALDI]

If by half the gallon you mean 1% you are correct. But the EPA is moving to make it even less, about 0.6%.

In the 1950s gasoline in the US used to have several percent benzene.

[aussie muscle]

isn't benzene a carcenogenic? (ie causes cancer)

[SlewofDamascus]

Net result is forced obsolescense.....of course, what the bunny huggers really want, is for everyone to return to a pre-industrial society....horses and buggys.

Scott

A great post, Scott, thanks for the info - regarding your final comment:

There's no question that there is an agenda, in California anyway, to get people out of their cars. It's probably not a bad idea, generally speaking, but the question is how to achieve the goal.

Unfornutely, there is a mindset in certain very powerful political circles to affect this social architecture by simply making it too expensive for people to drive an automobile (they have used the very same tactic in California to get people to quit smoking). Think of the added expense today compared to, say, ten years ago. It's staggering (in Cali, anyway).

Driving is a privilige. In fact, we have no real Rights, we just have priviliges, granted by people who aren't us.

As long as we can pay, we're cool.


david

[Mats]

dont forget nascars dont run on petrol (they run on methanol).

When unleaded came out there was rumors that it would quickly destroy a vehicle not designed for it. it runs a little hotter, but basically it's ok, and you can add a supplement to your fuel if it get too hot.

Similar story with ethanol. oil companies don't want you to buy it (until they have market dominance). change your fuel filter more often and you'll have no problems.[/b]

This is false information.

Unleaded will destroy (over time) an engine not designed for it and it has nothing to do with running a little hotter.

Ethanol will destroy certain plastics and rubbers in your fuel system (over time) pretty much like methanol do but less aggressive. It can also give problems with bare aluminium. The very small percentage in gasoline will not be a problem though, E85 or similar will howerver cause problems over time. There are a lot of changes to engines designed to run ethanol.

And yes, you can buy pure gasoline, at least here in europe. V-Power for instance has 0% ethanol and there are several brands of "environmental gasoline" here which is really a race fuel sold as lawnmower fuel (also used in indoor go-carts).

[Dennis]

there are several brands of "environmental gasoline" here which is really a race fuel sold as lawnmower fuel (also used in indoor go-carts).

Which ones? Maybe they are sold here aswell... BTW. both the racecar as my GTV runs WAY better on the BP "v-power" then on the original Shell V-Power. That's because the dutch v-power isn't like the german 100 octane

[car guy]

Mat is right. small amounts of ethanol/methanol mixed in with gasoline shouldn't be a problem. It helps reduce emissions and raises the octane value. I also notice i get less miles per gallon with it. Good for the petrolium industries they sell us more because we use it up faster. Clever people.

[Mats]

Dennis: Sorry, missed your reply.
Some are made locally and the other ones I wouldn't bother with because Race Fuel is extremely important to get fresh, it deteriorates very fast. Pretty much like all gasoline btw.

[balocco211]

I have noticed vapor lock/ hard start problems on hot days now that the people's republic of oregon mandates 10% ethanol year round. Stabil additive has reduced ethanol related problems.

http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/ ... ne_formula