ALFAGTV6.COM

[Jack_Linguini]

Hello Alfisti,

I have an 84 GTV6 2.5 that I've beaten the snot out of for
the last 3 years. the 2nd gear synchro has been crunchy since I
owned it. I've replaced the gear oil w Red Line a few times.
Anyway this box is pretty tired. May need new bearings in
addition to synchros. So it could be an expensive rebuild.

I also have acquired a good shifting Verde box. I tested it before
it was removed from the donor and it was a smooth shifter.

My dilemma is that I bought the verde box thinking that I would
have time and money to do the swap along w a fresh 3.0

well money and plans change. I can't afford to build a new motor this
year. So I have one gearbox that is worn and needs fixing, and another
that is in great shape but too tall for my 2.5 motor.

Is there anyone out there w a nice GTV6 box that might want to
trade ?

Would it be possible to swap the guts from the Verde gearbox into
the GTV6 ?

Could I swap out the 1st 3 gears from my GTV into the Milano box ?

At this point I really just want a decent second gear. I got the Verde
box
a) because of the longer second gear
b) the LSD
c) the synchros are nice.

it's a complete TA w the clutch, calipers driveshafts the whole shebang.
I had put it in the parts classifieds, but removed it as I didn't
get any action.

*TANGENT*
I want to be able to do a few club track days and I need a car for SCCA
drivers ed. I'm almost tempted to get an Integra or E30 BMW as they
are both probably MUCH easier to drive than the GTV6. I love the car
but realize that it takes some effort to drive it well.

What's my most cost effective solution ? I hate that second gear
is only good to 54mph before I start bouncing off the rev limiter.

any and all ideas appreciated.

j.v. Lentini

[ar4me]

Your solution: double-clutching + heel&toe. Practice on the street and use on track. You don't need no stinkin' synchros
Seriously, that is your cheapest solution and your situation will force you to learn it.
Jes

[Jack_Linguini]

Hi Jes,

thanks for the reply.

I have owned the car for more than 3 years and have driven it
on track numerous times the bad synchros. So I am able to double-clutch.

I'm looking to make the car easier to drive though.

Double clutching into the slow corners kills my time. I'm glad to
have this skill, but still I want to be able to downshift to second
gear in less than 2 seconds.

And besides. I am asking for a good solution to FIX MY GEARBOX.

So any thoughts on my actual question ?

bests

Jim L

[ar4me]

Ok, cool. Sorry, no good answer to your question. If you do end up taking it apart, perhaps you should consider lighting some gears as this should make the synchros last longer.
Jes

[Sporttunergtv6]

lighten up the rotating mass aft the engine via flywheels and gears. cooler gearbox fluid might help too... by the way what oil are you using? i got some advice from tom zat ( no slouch of an alfa guy/ i.e. exracer) and he used auto transmission dextron mercon synthetic... not to mention a tranny cooler with jets squirting right on the gears... also, if your cooking brake fluid repeatedly then you are def experiencing some heat transfer between your super hot brake calipers and discs and your struggling transmission. how about you put those calipers and rotors out board...
just my two cents...
vittorio

[Micke]

I wouldn't use ATF in the 116 boxes due to the differential gear.
The 105 boxes like ATF in my experience.

[mark_atterbury]

back to your original question Can you swap guts with the Verde box and make a decent GTV6 box.

I am currently working on a Milano silver / Verde compilation. I would think that the GTV6 box is not that far off.

You should be able to swap the ring and pinion from your GTV6 into the Verde box, keeping most of the other internals.

Caution - this is not for the faint of heart. You will need to fabricate some special tools (lathe work) and use a dial indicator to set the pinion depth and backlash. You will also need to set the differential bearing preload. The details are spelled out in the service manual CDs pretty clearly. You will need to fabricate the special tools.

To swap the pinion you will need to totally dissassemble the gear cluster (nice time for new sincro rings). Also check the dog teeth at this point. This is what you hear grinding when you shift. They can be changed, and are the same on gears 2-5. select the best of the 8 that you have, placing the worst to the higher gears. First gear dog teeth are unique so you only have 2 to choose from, use the best. Dog teeth are not available seperate from buying the gear. The syncro rings should also be inspected (look for sharp points on the ends, and no wear on the sides of the teeth). You will probably have 3 good enough ones from the 2 transmissions (5th has no wear on the back side because reverse is not syncronised).

The shifter input shaft will have to be changed to the one from the GTV6 unless you want to do the isostatic modification at the same time.

The pinion bearing on the Verde may be different than the one on the GTV6. mine was different on the slver. The Verde one should work in the earlier box, otherwise just use your Verde rear case.

The pinion bearing is a NU209E. The differential bearings are a BR35. These numbers will mean something to the bearing supplier if you need to replace them. I think that they are fairly standard. Input shaft and center support bearings are pretty specialized. You will probably have to just pick the best of the lot and use them. If you see any pitting or spalling on the rollers or races, the bearing should be replaced if possible.

It is also a good idea to check straightness of the input and pinion shafts while you have them out. Bent shafts cause a lot of wear and heat.

You can press the 3/4 gear set off of the input shaft. 1/2 are part of the shaft. This takes a lot of umph and possibly some heat (I send it out).

My thought on second gear syncro longevity is a higher first gear. I am working on this, but it is not easy or cheap to get a custom gear set. if I work this out it would involve grinding the gear off of both the input and 1st gear, then brazing the new gears on the remaining shaft/hub. Needles to say a bit more work to do on this.

Let me know if you need some small bits and I will see if I have them in my pile of left over parts.

Good luck,
Mark