ALFAGTV6.COM

[DP]

Hello,

I had this terrible saga of no-start electrical issues and I'm ashamed that it was a connection in the end. Oh the hours spent chasing that bastard....

Anyway, unknown history on transaxle, Verde, tall gears. New syncros and first tear-down and rebuild for me. When I let-up on the throttle (any speed, loudest at low speeds) there's a VERY noticeable gear whine. No vibrations, great shifting, etc. but this gear whine is yucky.

Anyone? The bearings could very well be bad for all I know. I replaced all seals and the two rear bearings on the stubby shafts - that's it.

Thanks a lot,
dp

p.s. A special thanks to Greg Gordon and his Dad for the help with my starter issues. Those guys are saints.

[sh0rtlife]

does it only do it in gear or in neutral as well?...if it does it in Neutral as well its probably the lash on the gearset

[DP]

Could you please use simpler terminology sir?

I don't think it does it in neutral - just when engaged and off the throttle.

I'll check it out though - thanks.

The only change I saw was when tightening the nut on the gearset (the nut that has the flange to puch into the slot for locking) the nut was about 1/4 turn further then when it was removed. Therefore, a bit tighter.

[Scott in MN]

Good to hear you solved the starter issue. I understand the frustration over overlookng simple solutions.

If I remember correctly, there is a variable thickness washer in the gear stack that can wear. I read one rebuild story where the washer had worn a lot and the guy was able to measure the unworn outside edge inorder to order the correct sized new one. All I can think of off hand.

[tectoteam]

Could you please use simpler terminology sir?

He is speaking about the play beetwen the tooths of crownwheel and pinion.

perhaps... when you change the rear bearings, the two of the differencial:
did you swap the 2 washers(number 12 in drawing) that are beetwen bearing outer cage and casings ? (not change...i said swap, one with the other).
theses shims are not all the same...

then if you swap them,, fit a thinner in rigth side(the cover side) and the thicker in the boxcasing case, this will move the differencial away from the pinion and make the play bein bigger.

this will make a whine sound.

dont want to fear you, but changing parts in that gearbox like rear bearings, or the one in beetwen middle flange and 4 gear, must need a new 'setting' of some vital clearance.

to do those things, dont need to be a enginneer...if you already did a box rebuilt you can do this.
but unfortunately, you need a few of tools, these can be made from blanks, but should cost a bit.
also you can find someone that can lend them.

All i said is for a to big clearance...but some things can make up when there is not enough clearance.. but the sounds is very strange to define...

if this problem is really internal...its a VERY good idea to stop driving now, until you will get more parts falling down than the last time when you open the gearbox...and that sounds...€€€ or $$$

I will fit pictures under, i dont know your mecanics skill level, but hope it help you understand, if its already done, this could be helpfull for someone else.

there is others clearance to set, but if this sound appears only after that rebuild when changing bearings, its probably here...
i rebuild a lot of thoses gearboxes, and when its a rebuild only, the washer rarely need to be changed and a very low impact on whining. ( the washer is between gear3 and 4 that set the pinion head distance to center of differencial axle)

But when mixing, some parts form here other from here...
often lsd+TS or later milanos gearings into gtv6 casings, with gtv6 casing to keep the speedo meter as oem fit; it appear to need serious shim setting beacause things move a lot...


hum...look all that words...with my natural english it sounds very effective to understand isn't it

[shures]

TectoTeam:

This is very helpful. Can you post your proceedures for setting these clearances and possibly photos of your tools. I have a Milano LSD that I plan to put into my GTV-6 one day soon.

[tectoteam]

TectoTeam:

This is very helpful. Can you post your proceedures for setting these clearances and possibly photos of your tools. I have a Milano LSD that I plan to put into my GTV-6 one day soon.

wow wow lot of things... i'll check a web site were you can download the workshope manual.

and yure very lucky...i got some photos...
if you know a bit how things are made in lathe and cie, you should be able to make or ask to someone to make for you the needed tools for a few of money..them are very simple tools.

EDIT:
If your french is good i can send you by mail a couple of the alfa worshop manuals in pdf in regard of gearbox. less than 5mo.
but for th eones in english i dont remenber were i saw it downloadable in the web sry, ill try a bit later.

i will put some photos under in a few moment

EDIT 2:
ok, i found something in my comput, a old alfa workshop manual for gear box, but looks like very short...it is in jpg files.
ill sen dit to you with the others in pdf (good quality! but in french) at you email. total is 6.6 mo. hope you mail box is not full !and enough roomy.

EDIT 3:
DAMMIT ! dont work like i want ! , for manuals please give me your email in a private message, or anyway to send you things

[tectoteam]

whue...in fact i got only one photo...

hope this help

you can see a big pizza where i put the 'watchchecker' (dont know matching word!).
he is at a precise position from the center of rear axle. depending of the gear ratio. (can find this value on manuals)

and then you can 'feel' the play beetwen thoots, the secondary shaft is locked then the only thing is moving is the differencial.

also note this:
this is only to set the play, but you can use it for differencial bearings play. blablabla...take a look on manual you will understand.

[tectoteam]

If you get trouble after all that, i can take a photo of the rest of tools and the parts that are not visible, but i need a couple of days.

but this will help you only if you can build these after...without tools like this you cant do one thing only:destroying things with whinin music.

[shures]

The photo is great and now that I see it I understand the illustrations you posted. It would be great if you could post photos of your other tools. I have access to a lathe and other tools but I also have a good machinist in mind who can do wonders.

There is nothing in your first photo that I do not already have. I was thinking you would get into the pillar guage but that doesn't scare me either. I almost bought one on Ebay but don't see the need to pay much for it. Looks easy enough to build.

Changing the ring gear side doesn't involve the mainshaft or any of the gear carriers. We are really in a situation where we can take a reading before tear down, install the limited slip and then adjust the shims to return to the same reading, right?

[Mats]

This is the procedure I was about to explain in this thread before I ran out of time.
In short, I found the method described in the manual with the "pizza" in the above pics to be very coarse, there is shitloads of play in the diff itself and all the splines and whatnot to make that method useless. Even when I held the crown wheel stationary and checked how much I could rotate the flange I was amazed and remember this was a newly rebuilt diff with no apparent wear in the splines or other places.

So use engineers blue and measure at the source, the gears.
...and yes, I know I should really finish that thread...

[tectoteam]

This is the procedure I was about to explain in this thread before I ran out of time.
In short, I found the method described in the manual with the "pizza" in the above pics to be very coarse, there is shitloads of play in the diff itself and all the splines and whatnot to make that method useless. Even when I held the crown wheel stationary and checked how much I could rotate the flange I was amazed and remember this was a newly rebuilt diff with no apparent wear in the splines or other places.

youre rigth..but that tool dont using shafts tooths.
a part of will center it precisely and the other part can hold in the differencial, with a rubber part and a tapered other part.
the threaded rod we can see in center of pizza will pull th etapered thing that will stick very hardly the rubber in diff body and make the tool and the differencial body interdependant.

i will take a pic this week end.

also, dont see when yu are speaking about your method in you thread...
this sounds to work..its awesomelycrazyfun.

[tectoteam]

SHURE

you can get manuals here to, great thanks to an user.


http://www.users.on.net/~craigf/

[Mats]

youre rigth..but that tool dont using shafts tooths.
a part of will center it precisely and the other part can hold in the differencial, with a rubber part and a tapered other part.
the threaded rod we can see in center of pizza will pull th etapered thing that will stick very hardly the rubber in diff body and make the tool and the differencial body interdependant.

i will take a pic this week end.

also, dont see when yu are speaking about your method in you thread...
this sounds to work..its awesomelycrazyfun.

Oh, I see, so it doesn't actually go through the planetary gears and spline? Then it will probably work.
BUT! You won't be able to see if the play comes from incorrect pinion height or incorrect backlash, that is a huge drawback.

As I said, I was supposed to write the whole thing down but other stuff got in the way... The diff is still standing on the workbench.
I'll get around to it eventually.

[tectoteam]

yeah its rigth...

i got others tools to set pinion heigth. (its a copy in alloy of the ones from alfa.)