ALFAGTV6.COM

Post by **Zamani** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:46 pm

Jim,

I'm thinking of it this way. The peak power is around 6200 rpm (for now), I may shift at 6700 rpm so that when I shift I'm not too down on revs. With a higher flowing head maybe it would mean a high peak power which would warrant better rods.

But why are you shifting so late? 7900rpm seems way high. Maybe the tracks you go to are short and shifting takes too much time?

Jim K · Post by **Jim K** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:30 pm

oops!

Wrong number there, changed it to 6900. Good eye, Z!

Hey Fed, why the Ti rod obsession?? 4340 will suffice for everything you may want! 4340 rods cost about 20Euros down there and Ti about 32Euros. These prices though are only science fiction to us! 4340's end up costing us (with ARP's) about 750Euros (V6), so my rough guess is that Ti rods would go for about 1100Euros or more to customers! Like I said, the authorized distributors are making a killing in this market!

Jim K.

Micke · Post by **Micke** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:50 pm

Are you all obsessed with con rods here

If you are talking 3.0 and less than 7krpm we are talking of a piston speed of 17 m/s (in a 2.5 not even that). Buy nice rods if you feel good but it IMHO it won't help a squat. If the rods break it's due to lack of oil and not the acceleration forces.

When pistons speeds past 20 m/s good rods can make you feel better and at 23-26 you really need the good stuff. I.e. 2.0 at 8krpm.

Whether an engine is classified as "performance" or not doesn't justify Ti rods when your pistn speed is 16 m/s. And what's the definition of performance anyway.

'nuf blabbering, I'll hit the bed.

Jim K · Post by **Jim K** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:59 pm

Good idea, its 12midnight here and the wife wants warmth in bed...

One last question: Alfa F3 engines maxed out at 6400rpm. Why did they have Ti rods?? Interesting, isn't it? (I don't know the answer, but I would guess engine acceleration/deceleration due to lower rotating weight. F3 is a hotly contested championship and everything counts!)
Jim K.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:35 am

Why does dogs lick their balls?

Because they can.

TS-engines, boys. TS...

PS. No I haven't had IKEA food, why would you eat at a furniture store anyway?
Meatballs can get in any store, in fact, I just had some.

Jim K · Post by **Jim K** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:17 am

Stop polluting the thread with meatballs Mats! TS only here,TS!

Jim K.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:29 am

No, YOU're a meatball.

fedezyl · Post by **fedezyl** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:48 pm

JimGreek wrote:oops!
Wrong number there, changed it to 6900. Good eye, Z!
Hey Fed, why the Ti rod obsession?? 4340 will suffice for everything you may want! 4340 rods cost about 20Euros down there and Ti about 32Euros. These prices though are only science fiction to us! 4340's end up costing us (with ARP's) about 750Euros (V6), so my rough guess is that Ti rods would go for about 1100Euros or more to customers! Like I said, the authorized distributors are making a killing in this market!
Jim K.

Well I like the fact that they are light, i'm not thinking about those for the 12v, since i'm thinking about buying Greg's Supercharger kit at the end of the year, but for the 24v sleeping on my garage waiting for your book to come out...and I want to make a screamer of that one...but if you say 4340 are enough i'm more than willing to get those...heheh, pretty much little chance to get those rods at those distributors prices huh?

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:07 am

JimGreek wrote:I tell you what: find one of your guys there who builds them 240hp engines and ask them how much they want to build you one!! Hell, I wouldn't know how to count that high with an 8v TS! BUT, you would only pay after seeing them horses on the dyno!!! That's the arrangement I would make! Pay a down payment covering parts and let them take it from there. I really do think this is a reasonable proposition. If you can get that kind of power, who cares if you built it yourself? You can always take it apart later and spy on the magic you paid for!
Jim K.

Well Jim, that's just the problem. There is no way in hell for me to afford that (except when winning the lottery or growing pot on a large scale

). And with what I'm paying now, growing pot has crossed my mind! Anyway, I will get you the superflow numbers as soon as I can. I have no idea what numbers we will come up with, but I have put some money aside for a schnitzel-fest in may.

The only thing I have found out so far is that it's very hard to even get advice from cam makers or distributors. Nevermind the answer you will get

The good thing is that this thread has become alive again!!

Jim K · Post by **Jim K** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:05 am

Dennis, if possible, make sure the flowbench data you get is at 10" pressure (which is probably what they use if they want any pecision with heads flowing in the range we're interested in). With this pressure, the Superflow 110/120 will measure up to a max of ~180cfm.
You haven't given a hint so far, just how much $$ do those guys charge for such an engine in labor and parts??
Jim K.

Post by **Zamani** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:42 am

Dennis,

Did you send your car to Hurricane Racing ?

These guys have both chassis and engine dyno. I imagine that you would have to sacrifice a few arms to have this shop work on your engine.

BTW I was on an E30 M3 forum and one guy there said he build TS motors for the Trofeo cup you guys have in NL. And he did quote the 230 bhp figure

.

Maurizio · Post by **Maurizio** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:41 am

BTW I was on an E30 M3 forum

Ok, officially banned from this site

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:31 am

Here's what I'm spending now:

- 45mm Throttle bodies, airbox and inlet manifold: € 600,-
- engine : € 3300,-
- JE forged pistons (blanks with new design) € 700,-
- cams + springs and followers € 760,-
- emerald ECU € 900,-

Engine work includes new bearings, new liners, new valves, new timing chains, porting, shotpeening, lightening, superfinishing and balancing. If I let the guys ,who did the 230 hp TS, do such an engine for me this would set me back around 10000 euros all together and most of the machining and balancing would happen at the shop where it is done now. Because he's a friend of my father I get a discount but I have to build the engine myself. I'm saving a lot and hope not to loose too much hp/nm to what they would build.

Does that clear things up? I have a lot more to spend though. Fuel pumps, injectors, etc.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:42 am

Zamani wrote:Dennis,

Did you send your car to Hurricane Racing ? These guys have both chassis and engine dyno. I imagine that you would have to sacrifice a few arms to have this shop work on your engine.

BTW I was on an E30 M3 forum and one guy there said he build TS motors for the Trofeo cup you guys have in NL. And he did quote the 230 bhp figure .

No it's not Hurricane. I'm using the machinist most of the tuners here in Holland use. Most of the time they port themselves, choose the pistons/ cams/rods and let him to the machining/cleaning and balancing. The guy on the M3 forum co-owns BS engines. They've built the 230hp TS which they are hoping to bump up to 240 this winter.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:19 am

You let a company called BS-engines touch your engine??

Were did you finds those incredibly cheap throttle bodies? Tell me now!