ALFAGTV6.COM

[Mats]

As for bending the lever, I can touch the steering wheel with mine when I make the shift into first...
Shifting from third to fourth is a simple matter of moving the hand 10cm to the right and flicking the wrist, really sweet compared to the "down on the floor" motion of the standard lever.

Maybe I should snap some pics?

Now, on the torque, can anybody honestly say that they know of a single box breaking down because of the power/torque going through it? I know of a couple of boxes breaking but that was due to non-existing maintenance and general abuse.
I asked Nick Humphries (spelling?) about this and he claims that he just tear the box down once a year and change synchros and bearings (if needed).
I guess he puts quite a lot of torque through the box with his turbo-TS engine.
There is a tuned turbo-GTV here in Sweden as well and I have never seen (or heard about) the box break down on it.

If you really needs to spend the cash you can always ask Colotti about it, I remember it being something like 10 000 Euro for the gears and 3 000 Euro for the diff...

[junglejustice]

Yep, that is the shifter from those DK guys.... (Jes, remember that I have an extra Platinum LSD sitting here if you do decide to go this route...) That shift-kit is 550 Euro...

I did get a steering extender and I may have more coming for those interested... (I hated the shifter hitting my knees so I moved the seat rails back and shortened the shifter (long arms!)

Extending the steering will now make all of the difference!

Mats - I'd love to see your setup!

On torque, the Glenwood TTs ATE-UP 3 boxes with race gears from England before Dawie decided to go with the front-mounted Getrag boxes....

[Andrew.b]

JJ

have a look at this link - do you really need a faster shift than this??

http://www.realemotorsports.com/rd/media/roebling.mpg

If you ain't racing 'your' car why the quest for the ultimate change?? You can get things 90% there if you're willing to make the right mods!

My rouse touring car makes do with a modified shifter, and comp box!!

Cheers

[Mats]

First thought: That is a bloody big mirror! Where can I get one!

Second thought: What the hell is all that stuff doing inside the cockpit and why is it so high up??

Third though: wtf? racing box? that upshift at 1:30 into the video crazy long, is that a std 3.54 box or something? My standard 4.1 box is way tighter.

Very cool video though.
I hope to be able to post my own videos soon.

[fuzzysi]

what car/track/driver is that video from?

[junglejustice]

Awesome video!

Yeah, this isn't bad (the shifting is good enough for me...) I don't think that the driver ever shifted below 3rd or maybe second once though on this track....

My problems are with highspeed long straights and then needing to go down to 2nd... Blib the throttle, yeah, bla, bla, bla.... I still get grinding! Blip 5K and same...

What car is this?
What shifter kit?
Andrew, who has the gear-kits in England?

[4SFED4]

JJ,

A transmission WITHOUT syncro's can be driven without grinding gears as long as double-clutching is done properly; perhaps a bit more practice is in order?

I have 20K miles on my turbo car which uses a stock Milano Platinum box and clutch with no problems. Even the guibo's have held up so far. Were I to do anything... I would have the gear set lightened and that just to improve the 1st to 2nd time.

About two weeks ago I raced a BMW Z8 at a stop light. While I don't drag race very often I was able to do a quick enough gear change from first to second to accomplish my goal!

Cheers,

-Brian

[junglejustice]

OK, many of the responses here, (while much appreciated) have been a bit off of the mark from my original post in that the responses point toward driving prowess and this was not my question in the original post...

While I myself (and all of us here for that matter), can always improve a bit in the skills department, the purpose of my original post was to find a fix FOR THE BOX...! (Not my driving style or skills...!)

Think of it this way; NO DRIVER (No JJ). Period. Just two cars, sitting side by side in the driveway. One stock Milano/GTV6 and one, whatever... a stock 325... (even a 17 year old one...) Same driver (not me) takes both cars out and comes back and says: "....man, I LOVE the handling and the power on the Italian..." Lovit-lovit-loove IT! But... The shifting has to go... Feels sloppy, crunches, won't precision shift, can't really shift it FAST without thinking about it first, feels rubbery… "Almost like the shifter is not really connected with the box.... What can be done?"

We’ll post a different thread later on “How To Teach People To Drive” This was kind of the point....

Without having to THINK about it… Without pausing, without double clutching, without blipping the throttle, without first rubbing rosary beads. JUST SHIFTING. What suggestions do you all have for treating the ailment NOT the symptom? Who do we buy that from (if a kit) and what is the price? What results have others here had with it?

For now, what do we do to fix THE CAR!?

[4SFED4]

JJ,

With all due respect... I think you are missing the point.

You need to decide what you want first; where will you dirve it, how much power will you put through it and of course how much do you want to spend? Keep in mind everything is a compromise.

For the street, a stock box in good working order works great. The newer Platinum boxes are better than the earlier ones. But even an early one, freshly tuned, works just fine. My bet is most current owners have never experienced a transaxle in proper tune.

For the track, you have been given several options already, my choice would be a straight cut gear set. Go find a formula car (Skip Barber has them) that use a Hewland box and you will see what a straight cut gear box gives you. Don't even have to lift the throttle when going up in gears but you will have to blip on the way down.
Colatti will build you one for your Alfa with whatever gear ratios you want for about $5500 US. That figure is about a year old and the dollar has fallen against the Euro, just email them, they are on the web.

Other than that you can use a Getrag transmission and the Alfa 6 rear end (obviously affecting F/R weight distribution), even go with the SMG box (read: $$$), but based on your insistance NOT to think, perhaps an automatic transaxle is what you are looking for?

Again, it all depends on what you want. I should add... if you are looking for a direct replacement (928, Hewland, or other) or "rebuild kit" for the 116 series Alfa transaxle that shifts like a Honda and handles 500BHP there 'aint one. My advice, go buy a Porsche 911 Twin Turbo, the grin on your face will make you forget all about your poorly shifting Alfa transaxle. (and a lot of other things too!)

Peace,

-Brian

[junglejustice]

Brian, no - I did not miss the point (of my own thread...)

...an automatic...? I mean really... Were you trying to insult me, or did you really just miss my prior posts on the goals and process with this car...? I have decided "what I am doing with the car, where I will drive it and how much power I will be putting through the box."

It's a 24 valve 3.7 with about 350 horses in a dedicated Milano track car - as stated before....

How productive was your "automatic" suggestion Brian?

Any way, budget is relative to what one gets... I'll spend the money, but at the same time I'll consider the bang for the buck. I won't spend 5500 + only to still have a sludgy shifter for example (no matter what gears are back there...) The package has to make an overall improvement to the KNOWN ISSUES with the Alfa Romeo transaxle.

This thread and some of the responses is very strange to me. I pose a question, based on a KNOWN ISSUE and suddenly some of the responses read like there IS no issue with the AR TA... MOST of the responses amount to little more than sarcastic jabs about my ability to drive!

Do we have our collective heads in the sand on the issue? If so, why do people go through measures AS DRASTIC as crushing a Getrag upfront...? What is really interesting is that the same subject keeps raising its head, but when it does, it sort of goes the same way.... (A prior thread on the same subject on another forum ended with "...what AR transaxle issue?...)

As a side note; I spoke with Dawie about this again last night... He has built 4 of the Getrag 6 speeds and he was adamant about the fact that moving that box forward is NOT a good idea on a track car such as this. He loves it on the freeway and around town, but he said that moving that much weight forward DOES change the balance on these cars significantly.

On the TT cars you need it, because it becomes a durability issue, but for what we are doing, he suggested the racing gears and keeping the weight back there. He seems to like the newer style linkages and proposes focusing on the forward donut and its support, flywheel weight and balancing, shaft balancing, syncros, lightening gears and shot-peening.

I'll stop here before anyone suggests curb-feelers.

[Mats]

Heres a video from inside my GTV 2000, maybe a bit offtopic but I think you might find the couple of shifts that actually takes place interesting.
Background info: Broken slave cylinder, if I don't stomp the clutch pedal is falls like a dead fish to the floor without disengaging the clutch at all and when i do stomp it it doesn't quite disengage it 100%, this has made the synchros "a bit worn"

Gears used 3rd all the way except on the straight where 4th goes in a while.

Please feel free to comment the clip

Click me for the vid

[junglejustice]

Hey, that’s some fancy foot-work there Mats…

[Mats]

Thanks. Couldn't do it before I moved the wheel back about 150mm and now I'm very frustrated in the street 75 because the bloody wheel is in the way.
Guess I'll have to get another deep-dish wheel.

[Adam]

I agree.. there definitely is a serious problem with the shift mechanism on these cars. I haven't had a chance to really disassemble mine yet.. is there any room for heim-joints/spherical bushings to replace rubber bits?

[Mats]

There are no rubber bits except the one at the bottom of the stick.