ALFAGTV6.COM

Murray · Post by **Murray** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:09 am

Last year I completely rebuilt my 86 2.5L and all went well.The car has been in storage since October and I'm just starting to use it.Well what do you know I've got a nasty oil leak at the rear of the engine.At first I figured it would reduce itself as the seals got hot and swelled a bit but no go it's getting worse.I tightened the bolts that fasten the upper oil sump to the engine - no joy.
I figure it can only be either the rear crank seal or the cigarette seals - both new AR parts during the rebuild.Anybody willing to take a guess ?
I'm evaluating if it would be possible to remove the upper sump without removing the engine to see if I can access the rear bearing cap and cigarette seals.Does anybody know if this can be done by removing the side motor mounts and jacking up the engine?
If I can do that I'd try putting some sealer in with the cigarette seals to see if that stops the leak.If not then it would have to be the crank seal and out comes the engine - oh joy.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:19 am

Did you perhaps not lube the rear seal when you put it together?

Murray · Post by **Murray** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:43 am

Mats I am particularly careful with details - followed the AR shop manual down to the last detail.Outside of crank seal was oiled and inside greased to ensure the spring stayed put.Seal was driven in straight which I verified prior to installing the flywheel.
Another thing comes to mind in my quest to avoid pulling the engine.I guess I should check my oil pressure.My guage has always operated near the top (somewhere around 80 psi) at higher rpm and never drops much below 55 psi at idle and I always figured it was inaccurate and didn't bother with it.I assume that to measure the actual pressure I would have to get to the sender

and plug in a fitting to use a mechanical guage.When I rebuilt the engine I checked the specs on the oil pump but didn't pay attention to the relief valve because it had never given me any trouble.Is it possible that my problem could be related to this ?

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:13 pm

Murray,You assemble the ciggy seals as is?No sealer/silicone?
I dont use seals at all,Force that lovely grey silicone sealer in the holes and make sure it peels out on the inside join all the way from top to bottom.It also squirls out at the bottom outwards..

Hope this is of value..

Murray · Post by **Murray** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:43 pm

Yes Barry I followed those %*? Alfa instructions to the letter - no sealer.I've just spent an hour under my car with the engine running

Now I know why they call it "Light sweet crude" .I think I'll stick with beer.
Anyway after cleaning all the oil off the surfaces I can just barely see oil seeping through the two cracks on either side of the bearing housing so it looks like cigarette seals.
So back to the question.Is it possible to access these seals with the engine in the car by removing the upper sump ?I'm hoping that by jacking up the engine enough I can clear the oil pump.Please tell me it's possible and even easy

If I can do this I would plan on shooting some sealant (some loctite product ?)up there and pushing the seals back in.

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:55 am

Murray,its very possible..scraped bleeding knuckles and stuff,but yes,it can be done..
We have just done Kevin`s dads car this way-three bloody times!!!

Remove the engine mounts and lift the engine as high as possible.the sump usually catches on main bearing studs,but with a few cuss words,it will come off.
My worry is ,will the rear main cap come off over the x-member??
Alternatively,remove ciggy seals in place(man,im glad this is not me...)clean with solvent,and fill with loctite gray silicone-leave the ciggy seals out..

Murray · Post by **Murray** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:58 am

Ok having slept on it I've concluded that trying to do this "in car" is unreasonable.That bearing cap is not going to come off as it's positioned directly above the crossmember and steering rack plus there is no reasonable way to squirt sealent upwards and have it work.- so out she comes.

So who can help me minimize my pain ?
Is it possible to pull the engine without removing the driveshaft ? (As much as I enjoy doing that I'd like to avoid it this time) I'm thinking if I undo the pinch bolt (86 GTV6) then I can slide the engine forward off the shaft.Am I nuts ?

So Barry based on what you said,once I flip my engine and haul out the bearing cap I should yank out the cigarette seals and use only Locktite 510 sealant (or similar) ?

I think I'll go and have a cigarette now

Murray · Post by **Murray** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:01 am

Barry I see that your about 2 seconds ahead of me

Why three times ? You're scaring the @?*& out of me.

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:19 am

Murray,un related to the ciggy seals on Kev`s dad`s engine..
The sump is a fabricated affair and I modified it to get more clearance over the x-member.
Only now the #3 and 6 conrods were touvhing the inside of the sump!
So off it came for some panelbeating.
Second time it developed a crack and spewed oil from my panelbeating!!
3rd time was that the rear main cap bolts were interfering and the sump , was 0.40" shy from sealing against the block!!

Oh well,Fourth time sorted as Im now checking EVERYTHING!!Should have done so to start off with,huh??

Yes,leave the ciggy seal out completely--fill it with that great Loctite gray silicone that GM use while they re still in bussiness!!!

Make sure it seeps out the joins as in the pic.On the flywheel side it must also seep out..Then NOTHING gets through there..

WOW,GOTTO GO,MY DOG JUST DROPPED A CLANGER!!!!!!!

Murray · Post by **Murray** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:26 am

Geez Barry that sounds nasty

Sorry I can't be there to help you clean it up !

So what do you figure my odds are of pulling the engine with the driveshaft in place ?

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:29 am

Eeeerm,......zero!

Its been done here,but the shaft gets screwed in the process.
The shaft is probably the easiest to do here..Unless the exhaust is a full solid welded affair..
No short cuts Im afraid..

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:33 am

Gees,thanks Murray..But it was a real bad biscuit fart

oh,and again...........cant breath.........just putting her out...

Murray · Post by **Murray** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:57 am

Barry I hope the air has cleared

I share your pain I've got a 120 lb.beast and if he eats the wrong stuff (like a rotting animal carcass) we have to leave him outside until his exhaust manifold has cleared.

I'm gonna be stubborn and try pulling the engine with the driveshaft in place.The way I see it 2" of forward movement should pull the splined end out of the way and the top of the bell housing is open....we'll see.Get ready to tell me "I told you so"

Post by **Zamani** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:11 am

Well it's possible, but you may screw up the donuts, not sure if you will screw up the driveshaft. I've done it before. Maybe it was just pure luck. But you need to remove the radiator to get enough room to move the engine forward. What I do is I drop the front portion of the dedion dedion and there should be enough flex in the donuts combined with pulling the engine foward to pull the driveshaft free from the flywheel.

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:28 am

The problem usually comes in when you have to lift the motor so the flywheel clears the steering rack.In doing so the prop goes hard against the top of the tunnel..

I'm taking bets !