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ar4me · Post by **ar4me** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:36 am

Mats wrote:Use a narrow cutting disc and make two cuts 10cm to each side of the watts link. This will give you enough room to bend to any angle you want.
Toe won't chage unless you change the width of the tube and this method won't do that.

Thanks Mats, How deep do you cut? 1/2-way, 3/4 way?

Scott, on a budget and want to do it myself. If I'm going to mess up the dedion at least I want to do it myself

I've heard of the RV alignment approach for years, but am yet to hear of someone actually managing to get them to do it.

Jes

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:01 pm

Maybe 270 degrees. I't will be obvious once you're there, because it's friggen impossible to bend it before that.

ar4me · Post by **ar4me** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:23 pm

Ok, thanks. Will give it a try, hopefully this coming weekend.
Jes

Post by **Zamani** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:55 pm

If you just make cuts around the watts linkage mount, how would it affect the hypotenuse bars (the 2 bars which runs from the rear bar to the pivot).

What about cutting the ends of, then carefully angle cut them for toe and camber? Is it more difficult to do?

Well Jes, if you weld it, make sure there's good penetration on the dedion tubes.

BTW, will this mod cause more wear on the CV joint at the hub? I guess at 2* it's almost negligible.

kevin · Post by **kevin** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:11 pm

Jes,
I have never done this personally but seen it a few times.
The fastest Alfa track car here at the moment is a 700kg 2.0l 8v Giulietta and he has cut the rear dedion to give him 2.5 deg camber and zero toe. When this chap first did this he found that the side shafts did not fit anymore and had to re machine the spacer between sideshafts and gearbox. Anyway i can chat to Rory for more info. I will put all the specs and pics of this car up as this is the ultimate track car with every trick in the book done to it. The chap who owns it has his own precision engineering works and has helped prep cars in the eighties for Alan Esterhuizen and still makes component(barrel throttles )today for Glenwood. unfortunately His prop mods could not be used on the v6's but his break and suspension set up is brilliant.If you want you can call him direct if you send me an emali i will give you his number.

ar4me · Post by **ar4me** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:25 pm

Kevin,
Thanks for the info. Specs, pics, and more info if you get a chance to talk to him sounds good. I'm surprised that 2 degrees would cause a problem with the half-shafts - doesn't the whole thing flex in the order of that during hard cornering? Maybe he can explain in more we detail to you and you can post here for the benefit of everyone. Anyway, I'm determined to try Mats' recipe. If I run into problems with the negative rear camber I may need to call him then

Is that the guy who did the pump for the dry sumps and the ITBs for some of the 3.7 engines Dawie did?
Jes

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:57 am

This has been done for a very long time here in Sweden, I have done it twice myself and it is very simple. No problems with halfshaft length what so ever, the smaller distance between the hubs is nothing compared to what happens when you let the suspension work. I have more then -2.5 btw, no issues.

I don't know what kind of tires you need to bend the de-dion but I have recorded 1.6g lateral load on my car and from photos you can see that the wheel is still at a very nice camber.

kevin · Post by **kevin** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:36 pm

Mats it does seem odd, I will ask him the real reasons why his sideshafts did not fit, maybe he went a lot more than 2.5 deg .

x-rad · Post by **x-rad** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:11 pm

maybe he cut out a bigger wedge @ 360 rewelded on the bearing housing?

junglejustice · Post by **junglejustice** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:18 pm

I tell you what happened in all likelihood - go look at the clearance between the TOP of the DeDion hub "ear" (part that holds the wheel-bearing housing) and the bottom of the CV head where it bolts to the little stub-axles - there's just about nothing there - especially on a V6 car!

So, if you create the cut/bend/weld too close to the hub, you run the CV right in to the DeDion...!

There is a VERY specific spot where it needs to happen and it is pretty close to the hub...

Even so - 3 degrees is like a ball-hair - you can move the tube 3 degrees by simply running a weld across it...

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:55 am

A picture with arrows is needed to make me understand all that.

junglejustice · Post by **junglejustice** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:52 am

In short; the space between the top of the DeDion and the bottom of the CV...

In the pic below - if you cut/weld the DeDion and add negative camber at (or around) "A" - you'll drive the CV right down in to the DeDion around "B".

However, if you cut at (or just maybe even to the right a bit of) "B" - you'll create the "dip" at the CV where there is room and flex in the side-shaft.

Believe me - the angle of this picture is generous for the amount of space that is there on a V6 CV...

la_strega_nera · Post by **la_strega_nera** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:29 pm

Which is why you "Use a narrow cutting disc and make two cuts 10cm to each side of the watts link" as Matts described.

junglejustice · Post by **junglejustice** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:54 pm

NO WAY!

Cutting and welding to the INSIDE of the two forward tapered DeDion arms? Now you have to still fight them where they are attached at the outer-limits to the rear bar as well as at the front of the triangle!

Also, cutting and modifying on the inside of the triangle - how the hell do you change the tow now!? (Again with the two hypotenuse bars still attached!?) Nah - do it outside of the triangle - just under the CVs...

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:53 pm

If you want to do it the hard way I won't "nag" you but anyone else reading should know that the cut/weld around the watts pivot is very easy and stable. Plenty of cars running it and no failures in probably 15+ years.