ALFAGTV6.COM

[bcal]

I want to dispense with the distributor because I'll be running an EDIS ignition system.
Problem is that the little gear drive is held down by the dizzy so without one it will simply ride up and then I won't have a oil pump dive.
So here is what I've done so far.
The bearing is a 12X26mm thrust bearing.




There is about 0.5mm end play on the gear and I think this is enough to allow for thermo expansion etc. I presume that under load the gear will tend to ride up to meet the trust bearing.

So if anyone can see a flaw in my plans or suggest any improvements then please let me know.

[Giuliettaevo2]

Looks like a very neat solution.

The 164 has its distributor in another location and solves this problem another way. The axle from the pump where the gear sits on is a little bit longer and it has thread on it so you can put the gear on and tighten a nut on it to keep it down.

[slyalfa]

if you look at my VEMS http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/engine- ... verde.html install on the afbb you will see I used the 164 pump parts. but it is not super easy. I had to use 2 pumps one 164 and one Milano pump.
I use the inside and the threaded shaft out of the 164 and used the Milano body.
The shaft of the 164 is a bit shorter so I had to grind down the top of the gear some so the nut could bolt tight and not bind the gear.

[MR2 Zig]

I remember Barry had some fix for this too. I don't remember if he posted it or not though.

hth,
Zig

[Greg Gordon]

Bcal, The only possible flaw I see in your plan is the life of the thrust bearing. It will probably be ok, but it's an unknown part that's about to become critical. That oil gear does get forced up, but I don't think it's pushed up too hard. I know of at least one GTV6 race car that doesn't have any bearing there (it has a metal cylinder to hold the gear down). They just change oil after every race and accept the fact that it makes metal. They overhaul the engine every season, so they don't care. Still.. the fact that it works at all without a bearing probably means that your system will work.

For what it's worth, I have had to deal with this a few times. I decided the best way to do it is to sacrifice an old distributor.

Greg Gordon,
www.hiperformancestore.com

[Duk]

Nice machine work bcal. But I'm hearing where Greg is coming from. The biggest issue I see is the lack of lubrication for the bearing. No lube equals fast bearing disintegration, equals bits of hard metal inside the engine. Maybe a sealed deep grove ball bearing instead?

[bcal]

I was trusting that they would be enough oil being flung off the gears to keep the bearing lubricated.
The bearing is not a tight fit on the plug so I guess the worst thing that could happen is that it seizes and begins to spin on the aluminum plug thus wearing it away.
If I do decide to go this way I will have to some regular inspections for any signs of failure.
Or source a sealed bearing, or just forget the whole thing and waste a dizzy (which I don't have BTW).

I'll look for a sealed bearing first.

Thanks guys for your input, much appreciated

[MD]

Before you go and change what seems a good solution, why not run the set up for a few days and strip it down. Examine closely how much lubrication is being flung up there (if any). If there is, you will be ok as is. If it isn't awash with oil, go to sealed bearing then..

I like the idea..

[kevin]

Barry, made pretty much identical part for onr of my motors. I will pull it out and post pics of any wear. I use nylon spacer on top. It has worked for 5000km sofar and I think its bullet proof. It was a clever solution as I used to have a nyloc nut on top with a washer before. If that nut comes loose there goes your engine.
Cheers

[slyalfa]

The 164 plug has a oil feed on top coming from the oil separator.

a few drops of oil can go along way

also I would use a sealed bearing. The one you have just seems like it would not take much to spit out the balls. a sealed one can be very bad and still keep all the parts inside.

[bcal]

Barry, made pretty much identical part for onr of my motors. I will pull it out and post pics of any wear.

Thanks, I'd love to see that.

There is a large oil drain from the exhaust side of the cylinder head which would pour oil onto the drive gear, thus keeping that area soaked in oil.

I've checked the bearing bible at work for a sealed thrust bearing and there isn't one.
All are 3 or 4 piece. One thing I did read is that these sorts of bearings need some load so I might add a wafered spring steel washer to give it a little preload.

Thanks for your your input so far fellas.

[Mats]

I think there is a bigger problem if you can get that bearing apart enought to spit ball bearings...

[bcal]

It wouldn't take too much effort to machine up a cup into which the bearing sits.
This would also solve the twin problems of keeping oil up to the bearing and retaining the balls if it fails.
I will also machine a taper on the plug so that oil runs down towards the bearing and keeps the cup full..

And I will machine a step on the cup such that it locates on the gear drive.
This would solve another little problem and that is aligning the three piece bearing while inserting the plug. Especially when the head is at a 30 deg angle.

Invention is the mother of necessity.

[kevin]

Got some pics. I did find a nice coating of oil on the bearings and no wear sofar. See the pics

[bcal]

Thanks for that Kevin, much appreciated mate.
Geez that looks similar to what I came up with today.
Any problems, signs or wear, bearing chatter etc, plenty of oil in that area?




I made it out of the head of a 1 inch stainless bolt.

I have yet to machine down the aluminium plug to suit.
Anyone got any ideas of how to set some sort of preload spring tension?
I've been toying with the idea of an oring set into the end of the plag where it mates against the bearing.

I will drill a hole down through the plug and fit an 1/8 hose fitting to the top. Then I can connect a line from the oil separator as slyalfa suggested.