ALFAGTV6.COM

[Sporttunergtv6]

well my 83 alfa 2.8 has decided not to start for me. suggestions much appreciated.... but hmmm first things first, background info: 2.8 conv, greg gordon ecu, 164 s cams, autodelta stage 3 injectors, and bmw 633 afm. yea i guess thats it.

the last time i ran the car a couple months ago i was in traffic on the nj turpike, prac idling through in first and when traffic started to move again the car started running rough. i mean choppy acceleration. i never tuned the afm idle mixture nor did i play w the spring tension (no time to as of yet)... so i firgured that the autodelta injectors were putting out too much fuel and the motor was drowning. anyway the prob got worse and worse until the motor jsut quit. so i havent started the thing in a while and that isnt helping anything.

i am pretty sure the timing belt didnt skip because the thing is tight tight tight. gas... yeah. ecu connection... check... coil and rotor... check. cold start injector... connected... switched back to stock alfa afm... emm hmm. spark plugs un fouled... pretty sure (i sprayed them with starter fluid and then lit them on fire).

when i went to troubleshoot some more today: get this i throw some started fluid in the ign and it starts up... as soon as the starter fluid is used up (i guess) it quits. could i have a broken fuel pump? clogged fuel filter maybe? how do i check the fuel pump?

when i installed another 633 afm on my stock stock 84 gtv6 things went fine. i few months later i installed a milano ecu to boost the fuel duration.. still no tuning and i ended up w some fouled spark plugs.. and an extremely lean mixture (demonstrated by glowing red exhaust pipe (comp destory the rear ansa tips)). the symtoms were similar... degenerative running motor until it just concked out. however my 84 started right up after i cleaned the plugs and replaced the gtv6 ecu and afm... then i put the bmw unit back on tuned it and have not had a prob since

whatever... i know that i have the technology to fix the machine. i am jsut so discouraged by the friggin "fix me only so i can break down the moment u get onto the highway" mentality that evil car has.

ahhhh !
sincerely,
vittorio

[Sporttunergtv6]

by the by, i do not have my shop manual handy... what is that cylindrical thing behind the fuel pump... you know toward the rear wheel?

[Reale]

The cylinder next to the fuel pump is the fuel filter, often a culprit in fuel pressure problems. In the past, I have been able to put a pressure gauge on the cold start injector hose, then if you push in a little on the AFM flapper with the ignition on, the pump should run-which is, by the way, a good way to make sure that the pump is actually working. Usual fire/explosion/spraying gas precautions apply.
-Al

[Greg Gordon]

This is definatly a fuel problem. I would check fuses, grounds, and all the usuall stuff. Then make sure the fuel pump runs and the fuel filter is unclogged.

Turn the pump on by turning the ignition on and jamming the AFM flap open. You should hear the pump run and you should be able to feel fuel rushing through the return line out of the fuel pressure regulator. If not Then the problem is in fuel delivery to the regulator (ie. pump, relay set, fuel filter etc.)

If all that stuff is good then the injectors are not firing. Keep in mind this engine will start, run and drive on just 3 cylinders so a no start condition is rarely injectors. So it's best to look at things that can effect all six injectors when diagnosing a no start fuel problem.

[Sporttunergtv6]

hmmm, well i am going back out there to fiddle with it on wed. hopoefully it will be the fuel pump or a clogged fuel filter. does it sound like those things could have been a part of a degenerative problem? also, greg, i am goign to be ordering a intake boot from you soon bc mine is really cracking. i guess it doesnt like the 80mm bmw afm stuffed in there! i still have to finish installing the hoses i bought last year.. everything i touch under the hood turns to dust!

[Zamani]

SporttunerGTV6,

You have a pretty hot engine there. Have you considered something like a Megasquirt or Gotech?

[x-rad]

Thoughts on fuel filter: I moved my fuel filter to the engine bay for convience and ease of replacing. I also replaced the plastic lines with metal ones.

[Greg Gordon]

Zamani has a good point. It may be a really good time to switch to Gotech. That system is now proven and not too expensive. There is no practiacal way to get L-Jet to work perfectly throughout the RPM range on a really hot 2.8 like yours. It always going to be too rich at low rpm if it has enough fuel up high.

If your vacuum lines and intake boot are comming apart that could be a big part of your starting problem. Watch out for leaking fuel lines. They will fail next.

Call me if you need any help. I am off work all week. If you don't have my number PM me.

[Sporttunergtv6]

sounds exciting... how would one go about purchasing a gotech setup on the east coast of the us?

[Greg Gordon]

Contact JungleJustice here on this forum. He is the only distributor of them here in the U.S.

[Greg Gordon]

JungleJustice (John) can be reached at john@reginaceleste.com

[Burger]

On the same subject,the fuel pump on my'84 will only run when the relay is jumped.The combi is good(I have 2 gtv's,so I swapped to check)once jumped,the pump works fine and car runs great.Could it be the signal from the AFM?Or is there another source of power that I might be missing-sorry to highjack your post,Sporttuner,but maybe we have the same problem...

[Sporttunergtv6]

hey guys, when i crank the car over and test the voltage at the fuel pump i should have close to if not exac, 12v, correct? i tested it yesterday and did not have that kind of power... so today i will try exchanging the combination relay that is at the front passenger side of my 83 with the one from my 84. ill keep my fingers crossed. man, the condition of the fuel lines under the car is disgusting i might just have to switch over to those sexy steel braided line (sexy as in stainless, meng )
ill post later tonight about the combi..

[Sporttunergtv6]

well i swappedd combi relay's no help... and i dont know if it means anything but when i press the microswitch inside the afm they both click... does that not mean that it is working? however when i go back to the fuel pump i do not hear anything and when i touch it, it does not feel like anyting is going on in there. would the pump working be something i could feel? also if anyone could tell me what voltage i am supposed to get back at the pump that would be awesome.

[Reale]

Your fuel pump is either not working, or is not getting power.
I do not recall the position of the fuse in relation to the combo relay, but I would check them all again-polish the connections, etc. You might want to visually examine the course of the fuel pump wiring (under the back seat, as I recall). I don't remember where it gets its ground, but I would check that also.
A good way to figure out what the problem is would be to connect some other 12V powered item (one that actually draws some current, like a headlight or a 12V fan) to the fuel pump wires, and see if it works when you open the flapper. A volt meter will indicate if 12v are there, but will not tell you if the circuit connections actually support current.
Also, check the connectors where they plug into the combo relay-they often corrode inside the connector and snap off.
-Al