Induction kit - Greg Gordon
Surprised there's no product feedback about Greg's stuff especially seeing as he's one of the key contributors to the forum, so here goes. Opening statement - I have no connection to Greg other than being a customer, so I'm trying to simply state unbiased facts for the info of others on this forum.
Car = 83 euro GTV6, 3.0 12v motor, CB cams, CSC extractors, no center box, ansa rear, MegaSquirt ECU & big injectors (also from Greg btw). The car used to have the biggest available BMW ljet AFM pegged wide open (was just there for it's air temp sensor) fitted to a modified Alfa airbox with a K&N panel filter inside and more cold air inlets to the box. The air inlet side was already a huge improvement over the stock tiny AFM, but I figured it could be improved:
I bought Greg's non AFM version of the inlet tube complete with his "best" version of air filter and silicon connector elbow. Note that with the Megasquirt ECU and a laptop I can view all engine parameters in real time or datalog them for later viewing, so these are my measured findings for the product rather than just opinions.
When tested the ambient air pressure was 98 kpa.
With the AFM & air box arrangement in place at full throttle the ECU would show 98 kpa inside the plenum up to 3000-3500rpm, then gradually drop down to 95 by 5000rpm and 94 by 6500, all at wide open throttle. I figured this loss of 3 or 4 kpa at maximum demand was a symptom of residual restriction from the components before the throttle valve. Now the good bit.
With the Greg kit installed and ambient air pressure still 98kpa I find that full throttle low to mid rpm is still 98 kpa, so no change here, or expected.
At 4000 rpm where previous version is already showing losses the new version maintains 98 kpa.
Above 5500 rpm the plenum pressure now increases to 99 and then 100 kpa and maintains this right through to 6800 rpm.
In short measurements of air pressure inside the plenum chamber are 5-6kpa higher than the previous modified and pretty good inlet system.
Not only has the restriction vanished but there is now a measurable RAM effect ! I don't know exactly how this comes about but suspect that as the air filter base is the shape of a large "velocity stack" and merges perfectly to an unribbed tube and elbow the system is not only unrestrictive but generates some positive RAM effect at high demand.
In short this is a fantastic product. I've gained 5-6 kpa air pressure which ought to be some 5% extra airflow into the engine and Air = Potential Power !
The extra breathing requirements of a mildly warmed 3.0 make this a very worthwhile modification.
Nice one Greg !
Car = 83 euro GTV6, 3.0 12v motor, CB cams, CSC extractors, no center box, ansa rear, MegaSquirt ECU & big injectors (also from Greg btw). The car used to have the biggest available BMW ljet AFM pegged wide open (was just there for it's air temp sensor) fitted to a modified Alfa airbox with a K&N panel filter inside and more cold air inlets to the box. The air inlet side was already a huge improvement over the stock tiny AFM, but I figured it could be improved:
I bought Greg's non AFM version of the inlet tube complete with his "best" version of air filter and silicon connector elbow. Note that with the Megasquirt ECU and a laptop I can view all engine parameters in real time or datalog them for later viewing, so these are my measured findings for the product rather than just opinions.
When tested the ambient air pressure was 98 kpa.
With the AFM & air box arrangement in place at full throttle the ECU would show 98 kpa inside the plenum up to 3000-3500rpm, then gradually drop down to 95 by 5000rpm and 94 by 6500, all at wide open throttle. I figured this loss of 3 or 4 kpa at maximum demand was a symptom of residual restriction from the components before the throttle valve. Now the good bit.
With the Greg kit installed and ambient air pressure still 98kpa I find that full throttle low to mid rpm is still 98 kpa, so no change here, or expected.
At 4000 rpm where previous version is already showing losses the new version maintains 98 kpa.
Above 5500 rpm the plenum pressure now increases to 99 and then 100 kpa and maintains this right through to 6800 rpm.
In short measurements of air pressure inside the plenum chamber are 5-6kpa higher than the previous modified and pretty good inlet system.
Not only has the restriction vanished but there is now a measurable RAM effect ! I don't know exactly how this comes about but suspect that as the air filter base is the shape of a large "velocity stack" and merges perfectly to an unribbed tube and elbow the system is not only unrestrictive but generates some positive RAM effect at high demand.
In short this is a fantastic product. I've gained 5-6 kpa air pressure which ought to be some 5% extra airflow into the engine and Air = Potential Power !
The extra breathing requirements of a mildly warmed 3.0 make this a very worthwhile modification.
Nice one Greg !
83' GTV6, 3.0 24v supercharged
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- Verde
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Thanks Steve, I really appreciate the review. These intake systems are not big sellers, probably because they are expensive and partly because a lot of people think the stock system is sooo good. Some just don't like yellow. However not one single person has ever sent one back or been anything other that pleased with the results.
The bottom line is it's a good product that does increase horsepower, reliability and will last forever.
The power gains while not huge range from about 5 horsepower (on a stock 2.5) and up when compared with the stock airbox using a K&N filter. Some say that's not a lot but it's about what you get from either 164S cams or most headers.
The bottom line is it's a good product that does increase horsepower, reliability and will last forever.
The power gains while not huge range from about 5 horsepower (on a stock 2.5) and up when compared with the stock airbox using a K&N filter. Some say that's not a lot but it's about what you get from either 164S cams or most headers.
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Steve,Greg,Now that you have this extra air to the motor,start playing around with the full open angle of the throttle body plate.Its very pronounced in a turbo setup where I can get upto 20 odd wheel hp more!!!I kidd you not.On the n/a engine there is a definate improvement when the t/b plate is set just right..Dont ask me the theory of operation,I just know it works...It stops opening about 7 deg. from flat..recognize the 7 deg.??
Barry
Barry
French cars are shit and shit expensive to service and bloody awful and unreliable and expensive and friends don't let friends drive french cars and you wait years for parts.
Thanks for the tip Barry & Jim, I'll check that.
I'd presume the throttle plate should open absolutely 90 degrees to present the least surface area, or are you saying it's "better" for some reason not obvious to me that it should it be a few degrees off ?? (apologies for dumb question). Perhaps it's just because I don't understand the "7 degrees" reference, could you elaborate?
BTW re the filter, the inlet air temp is also cool when cruising at any speed, but I made up a heat shield for it anyway to improve things in traffic, especially if the engine fans are on as things get pretty warm under there.
I'd presume the throttle plate should open absolutely 90 degrees to present the least surface area, or are you saying it's "better" for some reason not obvious to me that it should it be a few degrees off ?? (apologies for dumb question). Perhaps it's just because I don't understand the "7 degrees" reference, could you elaborate?
BTW re the filter, the inlet air temp is also cool when cruising at any speed, but I made up a heat shield for it anyway to improve things in traffic, especially if the engine fans are on as things get pretty warm under there.
83' GTV6, 3.0 24v supercharged
well, i kinda assumed it wouldn't be a big deal to get some bent exhaust tubing to operate the MS off, am i way off base here?
did you look into going to an exhaust shop greg? what made you got for this (yellow) material?
did you look into going to an exhaust shop greg? what made you got for this (yellow) material?
"Fun is an unintended, unforeseen, and usually undignified consequence of life."
Steve,Yes-The throttle plate is NOT at 90deg.Ive found that pulling it a bit closed-approx 7deg.-the motor gets some extra get go....Must have to do with deflecting dynamic air at the intakes...This works,play with it....
Gordon Murray(please,Im not name dropping here,so happened to be at his brothers place in Durban and chatted to him.....)informed me that an angle of 7deg. is the ideal aerodynamic angle for air to change direction-check out old cossie dfv ramtubes......
Barry
Gordon Murray(please,Im not name dropping here,so happened to be at his brothers place in Durban and chatted to him.....)informed me that an angle of 7deg. is the ideal aerodynamic angle for air to change direction-check out old cossie dfv ramtubes......
Barry
French cars are shit and shit expensive to service and bloody awful and unreliable and expensive and friends don't let friends drive french cars and you wait years for parts.
Thanks Barry, top info.
I think that finally explains something odd I'd noticed on my car a long time ago - the old "butt dyno " has always thought the car has the most go when the throttle isn't "quite" on the floor. I'd always thought this was because the car just wasn't tuned perfectly.... Now I wonder if my "nearly on the floor" is your 7 degrees off from WOT.
no prizes for guessing what I'll be checking and adjusting tonight!
I think that finally explains something odd I'd noticed on my car a long time ago - the old "butt dyno " has always thought the car has the most go when the throttle isn't "quite" on the floor. I'd always thought this was because the car just wasn't tuned perfectly.... Now I wonder if my "nearly on the floor" is your 7 degrees off from WOT.
no prizes for guessing what I'll be checking and adjusting tonight!
83' GTV6, 3.0 24v supercharged
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- Verde
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Hi Joey, You can go to an exhaust shop and fabricate you own system, no question about that.
I used the silicone elbow for two reasons. First I couldn't get a mandrel bend tight enough with a 3 inch diameter pipe. The outside edge gets too thin, even with 13 gauge pipe. I could do it with a smaller pipe but that's not what I wanted. Or I could have allowed the 3 inch pipe to collapse slightly to fit but that's not what I wanted either. Second even if I could get the bend I still need to connect it to the throttle body which will require a coupler and two clamps anyway.
I like yellow, and this particular yellow elbow is very well made. Multiple layers of silicone reinforced with nylon, and it's fairly thick.
I was kind of hoping this thread would stay on topic for a little while.
I used the silicone elbow for two reasons. First I couldn't get a mandrel bend tight enough with a 3 inch diameter pipe. The outside edge gets too thin, even with 13 gauge pipe. I could do it with a smaller pipe but that's not what I wanted. Or I could have allowed the 3 inch pipe to collapse slightly to fit but that's not what I wanted either. Second even if I could get the bend I still need to connect it to the throttle body which will require a coupler and two clamps anyway.
I like yellow, and this particular yellow elbow is very well made. Multiple layers of silicone reinforced with nylon, and it's fairly thick.
I was kind of hoping this thread would stay on topic for a little while.
I think Greg's intake is a good idea, I am trying to build my own, and I now know it is much easier just to buy Greg's, but I am too far down the road to go back, I am getting a lot of personal favors to get mine together, cutting 3" SS pipe and welding, so I may come out a little cheaper, but not as easy or as quick. And as a side note, Greg, I got the injectors yesterday, thanks, hopefully I will have them on the car this weekend, but I will still be waiting to finish my intakes...
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- Verde
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Hi Barry, it will handle the pressure just fine, and yes, it's the same elbow I use on the pressure side of the supercharger. I have tons of mandrel bent pipes, silicone elbows, reducers, filters, etc.
Sam, I am glad you got the injectors, they should work very well for you. Good luck on the intake and if you need any help with it shoot me an e mail or PM me.
Sam, I am glad you got the injectors, they should work very well for you. Good luck on the intake and if you need any help with it shoot me an e mail or PM me.