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matt · Post by **matt** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:40 pm

Hi I have just landed a "new"autodelta turbo kit for the 2.0, the KKK turbo is second hand but the rest is new including the carbies! I'm feel very very lucky here with opportunity to have a gtv "turbodelta" dream come true. The kit is almost complete leaving me with some questions. Firstly the original turbodelta fuel pump set up i assume was with an electric fuel pump as the mech' pump mount is blanked off for a emissions return line(see photos)
Has any one got a pic or details of the fuel system, gph/psi etc

Any other info on the autodelta conversion very appreciated
Thanks Matt

x-rad · Post by **x-rad** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:37 pm

I don't know much about Autodelta turbines, but I have had some racing experience with Garrett turbos. They supply all kinds of turbine/compressor data sheets for just about every demand and volume you can think of. Also, they are nearly 'indestructable' with combo oil lubrication and water cooling. I had a T3/4 combination running about 21-24lbs boost into a two liter(8.5-1 comp). Of course there was intercooling and high flow injectors putting out about 350+hp. I used a Haltech control system. But now I digress too far from the true Alfa path......

Wouldn't mind designing a twin turbo for my 3.0 with modern ignition and fuel control...

Need a new head first..

matt · Post by **matt** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:52 pm

Thanks x-rad

.............some more questions..........

The turbodelta head and head gasket must be different to stock head (recessed for o ring on top of liners) and head gasket to fit around these o rings (see photo ) Anyone got a photo or info on this

Thanks Matt

matt · Post by **matt** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:34 pm

Hi all does anyone know if alfa 75 turbo uses same liners with o ring in photo above???? and if so does anyone have photo of the head gasket?
Thanks Matt

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:26 pm

Matt,
The fuel pump setup that will work for you is as follows.
Use a Malpassi boost referenced fuel regulator.They are freely available.Do not use the rising rate regulator as it will not work with carbs.Use a stock efi type of fuel pump with a return from the regulator.This is your fuel etup in a nutshell.

The turbodelta headgasket setup was very simmilar to the old original gtv6 type gasket-A rubber surround with loose cooper type rings recessed into the sleeve as per your picture.The rubber outer had machined spacers that took the place of the std. gaskets "o" rings.These were critical in sustaining a seal from the cooper rings.As a side ,these were true cooper rings as they are gas filled and collapse under pressure to give you the seal required.

If you dont have the original setup,I would go for a high quality Reinz headgasket and '0' ring the tops of the sleeve for either stainless or copper rings-I use copper rings.The best is to cut the receptor groove in the head instead of the sleeves.The reason for this is that the headgasket has a thinner section on the sleeve sealing surface on the top side that can then be contained within the copper " o" ring.If the receptor groove is on the sleeve ,the copper "o" rings deforms the wider material that seals against the leeve.Eother method will work.Dont use the rings with Payen gaskets-it just does not last..

The perfect setup would of course be to go efi with Haltech or simmilar using motronic hardware for your engine-

Do you have the delta forged pistons as well??I see them in the picture..

Im away for a while ,but will check for pictures when I get back home for you...With a bit of luck I might still have an original headgasket setup somewhere.....

Barry

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:03 pm

The 75t looks like any other standard Nord, i.e. no O-ringed liners.

matt · Post by **matt** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:59 pm

Thanks Barry and Mats, great info there, the pistons are stamped 84-6654 1\F

Geez Barry if you've got one of these head gaskets gathering dust on the back shelf name you're price

Its very interesting the 75 turbo doesnt have these o ringed liners. Why would that be?, i would have thought these o ringed liners would be able to withstand higher cylinder temps/pressures.
This is the press reg with the kit

As for the fuel pump i'm unsure which one to get as i figure for 200bhp engine 17gph pump required but all the elec pumps i've seen start from 30gph so i must be missing something here?

30 gph at 4psi

i think this is 90gph+ at ?psi

Thanks Matt

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:29 pm

Matt,take a picture of your piston from underneath and post please....

The fuel reg is the Malpassi unit I was refering to.This is the right thing for Sally...Now forget the pumps in the pictures you have-use a rotary vane pump from the gtv6,BMW,VW,Opel,etc.The reg. has a return to the tank,so the efi pump will return excess fuel to the tank.Set your fuel press to 4-7psi.

As for the gasket setup,sorry-I shipped this off to Israel a few years back-thought I still had it...

Post that pic,will you?

Barry

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:34 pm

Matt-A nice turbo upgrade for the engine is a KKK turbo off the old Audi 500 turbo....bolts to the turbodelta manifold...This is the same shape Audi as the IMSA turbo race cars...

Barry

matt · Post by **matt** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:32 pm

Thanks Barry
Beauty i got a K26 turbo, i think its in good nic, next to no side play and no vertical play...compressor good.....but the turbine could be stuffed, covered in junk and a fair amount of space between housing and blades? What do you think?
here's the piston pics

heres the turbo

Geez the more i look at this photo the more concerned i get

I got the orig ex housing but rest was sold by accident years ago i'm told

Thanks Matt

Post by **Michael** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:50 pm

I wonder if that is a K26#6? If so, then this is the same turbo as Porsche used in the 944 turbo... (earlier models). Does it have both oil and water connections (the 944 Turbo turbocharger is cooled via coolant circulation within the turbo ... reducing coking).
If it is a 944 Turbo turbocharger and you have to replace yours, the good news is that they are pretty inexpensive given that lots of people replace perfectly good ones with larger turbos for improved performance (just like Porsche did with the 951S). There are usually lots of them on Ebay. You could also have that one rebuilt fairly inexpensively provided the turbines are both in good shape.

That does appear to be lots of space between the turbine and the housing on the hot side ... its possible that the turbo has been 'clipped' = tuners sometimes do this to speed up the boost response (at the expense of other characteristics usually).

Looks like you have an awesome project underway!

Cheers,

matt · Post by **matt** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:54 pm

Thanks Michael, its only oil cooled so i'm not really sure of origin, i was told from an audi but .....
Can you explain "clipped" is that a way of triming weight off turbine = faster accel = better respone/driveabily
and poss explain...and i guess i'm being very optomistic here explain the excessive gap between housing and blades
I need to somehow clean all that junk off to see condition of the blades.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:13 am

That turbo is absolutely the worst I've ever seen (besides my own which broke the turbine shaft at speed). It is shot, absolutely useless. Impeller blades show signs of foreign object and the turbine blades are corroded. There is no way that turbo will hold up for even a test run with that kind of unbalanced rotating assembly. I'm sorry.

The pistons on the other hand looks like forgies, very nice, definetly aftermarket.

AR's decition not to use o-rings is understandable, to introduce that many no-carry-over parts for a small production run car is absolutely insane. They also didn't need it, they met the specified power/torque figures with very simple changes i.e. cheap.

Post by **Michael** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:30 am

Amazing how much info is on wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger

"Another common method of equalizing turbo lag, is to have the turbine wheel "clipped", or to reduce the surface area of the turbine wheel's rotating blades. By clipping a minute portion off of the tip of each blade of the turbine wheel, less restriction is imposed upon the escaping exhaust gases. This imparts less impedance onto the flow of exhaust gasses at low rpm, allowing the vehicle to retain more of its low-end torque, but also pushes the effective boost rpm to a slightly higher level. The amount a turbine wheel is and can be clipped is highly application-specific. Turbine clipping is measured and specified in degrees."

In retrospect, the amount that would have been 'clipped' would be a lot more than "minute" so perhaps the hot side turbine did ingest some foreign material... You can of course buy a new hot side turbine when you get that turbo overhauled.

Cheers,

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:44 am

Impeller - cold side.

Well of course you could overhaul it but it would probably be better and cheaper/easier to buy a more modern current production turbo.

Turbodelta fuel pump gph/psi + q's