Fooling around at the rear.....
So hopefully my title will get JK's & Barry's attention
Here's my story:86 GTV6 2.5L used for street and track.
Current suspension setup: Koni yellows all around,Shankle sport suspension setup with 27mm front anti-roll bar 25.5mm rear anti roll bar stock front torsion bars (I'm too lazy to upgrade to 27mm ) rear Sport ? springs.
Currently my car's track handling is very neutral and balanced so I figured I'd screw it up
I've read here and elsewhere that some people remove the rear swaybar on the track so I decided to disconnect mine to see what happened.On the street it certainly softens up the rear but on bad roads I find it allows a little too much movement.I haven't tracked it yet but I feel like the rear end would take a better "set" and probably take a bit of time off a lap ?
So my question is if I reconnect it but use longer link bolts (my bars are connected to Dedion differently than stock) such that the bar is only coming into play at more radical angles of body lean will I likely strike a reasonable compromise between to stiff and too soft or am I likely to screw up my transition from no roll to full roll ?
Here's my story:86 GTV6 2.5L used for street and track.
Current suspension setup: Koni yellows all around,Shankle sport suspension setup with 27mm front anti-roll bar 25.5mm rear anti roll bar stock front torsion bars (I'm too lazy to upgrade to 27mm ) rear Sport ? springs.
Currently my car's track handling is very neutral and balanced so I figured I'd screw it up
I've read here and elsewhere that some people remove the rear swaybar on the track so I decided to disconnect mine to see what happened.On the street it certainly softens up the rear but on bad roads I find it allows a little too much movement.I haven't tracked it yet but I feel like the rear end would take a better "set" and probably take a bit of time off a lap ?
So my question is if I reconnect it but use longer link bolts (my bars are connected to Dedion differently than stock) such that the bar is only coming into play at more radical angles of body lean will I likely strike a reasonable compromise between to stiff and too soft or am I likely to screw up my transition from no roll to full roll ?
- Attachments
-
- SWAYLINK.jpg (11.94 KiB) Viewed 10587 times
-
- REARSWAY1.jpg (16.69 KiB) Viewed 10588 times
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
Increasing the link length will have very, very limited effect (and really not the way you think, only during breaking and accelerating).
You will for sure notice a bigger difference if you vary the amount of fuel in the tank.
Better to move attachment point on the bar to make the leverage arm longer/shorter, that makes the AR-bar softer/stiffer over all.
If you do remove the rear bar and you had a good balance before you will get understeer...
You will for sure notice a bigger difference if you vary the amount of fuel in the tank.
Better to move attachment point on the bar to make the leverage arm longer/shorter, that makes the AR-bar softer/stiffer over all.
If you do remove the rear bar and you had a good balance before you will get understeer...
Mats Strandberg
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
You may notice track improvement in the wet if you disconnect it and thats about it. There are rear bars (I don't remember who sells them) with different link attachment points along the two arms, THERE you could experiment, as Mats says short or long links in your existing setup would do almost nothing.
Me and Barry have something to do with rear-ends?? I can see Greece having unjustly earned the reputation (if you think its justified, you must have some...proof you'd like to share,heheh! ) But Nigeria...?? Hmmm, maybe you're right, them buggers are always up to no good, hell, I use surgical gloves when I type letters to the guy! Can't be too careful, y'know!
Jim K.
Me and Barry have something to do with rear-ends?? I can see Greece having unjustly earned the reputation (if you think its justified, you must have some...proof you'd like to share,heheh! ) But Nigeria...?? Hmmm, maybe you're right, them buggers are always up to no good, hell, I use surgical gloves when I type letters to the guy! Can't be too careful, y'know!
Jim K.
Ok thanks guys,knew you'd have a good answer.I'll leave things alone for now and order a new bar from Andy at Performatek this winter.He sells the bars with selectable mounting holes.
Rear ends of cars only JK you must have read something else into my wording
Rear ends of cars only JK you must have read something else into my wording
- Attachments
-
- REARSWAY.jpg (37.41 KiB) Viewed 10549 times
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
Mats what is about that design that concerns you ?
x-rad that image is from http://www.performatek.com/frOnlineCatalog.htm Perfomatek's website.Andy has all kinds of good stuff for transaxle cars.
x-rad that image is from http://www.performatek.com/frOnlineCatalog.htm Perfomatek's website.Andy has all kinds of good stuff for transaxle cars.
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
Read what I wrote again but this time think dirty.Murray wrote:Mats what is about that design that concerns you ?
No, dirtier!!!
That's right....
Mats Strandberg
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
-Scuderia Rosso- Now burned to the ground...
-onemanracing.com-
-Strandberg.photography-
GTV 2000 -77 - Died in the fire.
155 V6 Sport -96 - Sold!
- Mezevenf
- Platinum
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:52 am
- Location: Gold Coast, Australia
- Contact:
Haha, thats so wrong.Mats wrote:Read what I wrote again but this time think dirty.Murray wrote:Mats what is about that design that concerns you ?
No, dirtier!!!
That's right....
Bernard M (AKA Mef - Mezevenf)
1986 75QV 3.0L 24v V6 - Silver
1985 GTV6 2.5L 12v V6 - Red
1999 166 3.0L 24v V6 - Red
NightSpec
1986 75QV 3.0L 24v V6 - Silver
1985 GTV6 2.5L 12v V6 - Red
1999 166 3.0L 24v V6 - Red
NightSpec
Murray,
What is your goal? I have ahard time understanding what you aim for. If the balance is right like you write, it WILL NOT improve by just playing with the rear AR bar.
If your car doesn't have a LSD there is a gain in a soft rear end. This increased traction in acceleration from curves then come of the cost of increased US in general.
If you want to play, I'd say the starting point is decent front springs and then tune the balance neutral with the bars.
What is your goal? I have ahard time understanding what you aim for. If the balance is right like you write, it WILL NOT improve by just playing with the rear AR bar.
If your car doesn't have a LSD there is a gain in a soft rear end. This increased traction in acceleration from curves then come of the cost of increased US in general.
If you want to play, I'd say the starting point is decent front springs and then tune the balance neutral with the bars.
- Maurizio
- Verde
- Posts: 680
- Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:49 am
- Location: the Netherlands, 153.1km from the N'ring :-)
People have the need to change something to prove that theory and real life is the same.What is your goal?
Had disconnected the back side ar bar for the ring trip in the wet a few weeks ago. And even after a few 100m from my driveway I already disliked the added understeer, but so much safer in the rain.
Banned.. ? Daily donky.. ==> BMW 325d
E36M3 (3.0) Ringtool ==> definitely BANNED!
AR 75 TS Ringtool '90, AR Spider 2000 veloce '79
E36M3 (3.0) Ringtool ==> definitely BANNED!
AR 75 TS Ringtool '90, AR Spider 2000 veloce '79
Mats my problem was I was actually thinking clean/normal thoughts at that moment.It was just temporary.I'm OK nowRead what I wrote again but this time think dirty
Micke basically Maurizio explained why I'm exploring this.Well balanced cars are not necessarily the fastest around the track.I'm fed up with getting my butt kicked by modern FWD cars particularly Hondas (my son's) so I'm trying out different theories and learning.You're right that step #1 with my current setup is to increase my front spring-rate which I will do next winter.
1986-GTV6
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER
1989-75 Twinspark very sadly sold-remarkable sedan !
2014 Audi Q5 3.0l TDI - torque MONSTER